Michael Kelsey's Top 40 Canyons

[Iceaxe]

This subject was brought up in anther thread and in my infinite wisdom I deemed the subject worthy of it's own thread.

MK published a top 40 list in his 1st addition of "Technical Slot Canyon Guide to the Colorado Plateau", it appears the list has been removed from his 2nd edition.

The list generated great controversy when it was first realeased for two basic reasons:

1. Four of the canyons tied for first place on the list are closed and one of the few methods of doing them is to poach them.

2. Many feel a top list of any type puts a lot of pressure on the canyons listed and creates problems.


Anyhoo.... here is MK's Top 40 Canyon list.

[Kishkumen]

I got to get crackin...looks like I have a lot of canyons to do!!! Yahoo!!

[Sandstone Addiction]

What? King Mesa Slots didn't make the top 40? I thought those were his favorites.

[moab mark]

I think I need a Navajo as a relative.

[Iceaxe]

I think I need a Navajo as a relative.

It gets a lot more complicated then that. The Navajo nation is divided into 110 Chapters and each Chapter has control over its own area. Some chapters are friendly with each other and some are not.

One of my best friends is Navajo and her mother and a couple brothers live one the reservation. When she goes with us she can take us a lot of cool places. But there are other places she says she is not really welcome because her family is a different chapter. Its really complicated...

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[Rob L]

<snip>...family is a different chapter. ...

Also very true with all and any peoples of supposedly similar background; be they Hindus (to use a religious example); Cockney (to use a tightly-knit geographical area example); Mafia (to use a gangland example); infighting within Republicans, conservatives, Democrats and liberals (to use a political example).

Hey, even within our own close Canyoneering & Canyoning communities there are differences of opinion.

Funnily enough, most of these differences don't actually matter when groups meet up in person .

Except perhaps the Hindus. Oh, and the Cockneys. Then again the Mafia don't always get on in person. Nor do the politicians.

I guess that leaves only the Canyoneering fraternity to keep world peace!

[Scott P]

King Mesa Slots didn't make the top 40?

Those weren't in the 1st edition. Only the 1st edition had a top 40 list.

[mzamp]

I had the luxury of going through Kaibito back in the early 90s before it was closed. If only I had the internet too at the same time I would have done the other slots that are now closed.

Is there any work being done with the Navajo Nation on access? I wouldn't even mind if they charged like they do for Antelope.

[yetigonecrazy]

Just how many sections of narrows does Kaibito have? I've been looking at Google Earth all morning long, how many times does it slot up from it's headwaters through the heart of White Mesa, down to Kaibito, and then down to Powell? Looks like a whole bunch.....Sections in the very headwaters, and then again in the Mesa and just below it. Another just above the highway too.

Did anyone have a chance to get into any of the White Mesa canyons before the closures? It looks like there are slots and deep, narrow canyons coming off the Mesa on all sides, as well as a number within the heart of the mesa itself. Also on it's farthest southern slope, just north of the Black Mesa-Lake Powell railroad track.

What about Potato Wash, did anyone have a chance to do some exploring in there before the closures?

Has anyone made a serious effort to speak with elders or another governing body within the Kaibito chapter about the potential goldmine for tourist dollars they have? Kaibito seems to be surrounded by slots in a way few other communities are in this country short of Hanksville, Escalante, etc,. Has there been consideration of a proposal to them about how to operate these canyons responsibly so they can get some bankroll while also becoming free of liability for rescues and such? I know the Navajo Nation is a disorganized place with little to no inter-chapter relations, but would it not be at least worth a thought to presenting something to them, with notable and known canyoneering personalities offering their opinions and ideas on a future of the area that allows cooperation and benefits to all parties involved? Or am I just being completely un-realistic? I'm afraid to say most of my interactions with Navajos involves drinking heavily at Fort Lewis in Durango.....

[stefan]

Just how many sections of narrows does Kaibito have? I've been looking at Google Earth all morning long, how many times does it slot up from it's headwaters through the heart of White Mesa, down to Kaibito, and then down to Powell? Looks like a whole bunch.....Sections in the very headwaters, and then again in the Mesa and just below it. Another just above the highway too.

Did anyone have a chance to get into any of the White Mesa canyons before the closures? It looks like there are slots and deep, narrow canyons coming off the Mesa on all sides, as well as a number within the heart of the mesa itself. Also on it's farthest southern slope, just north of the Black Mesa-Lake Powell railroad track.

What about Potato Wash, did anyone have a chance to do some exploring in there before the closures?

Has anyone made a serious effort to speak with elders or another governing body within the Kaibito chapter about the potential goldmine for tourist dollars they have? Kaibito seems to be surrounded by slots in a way few other communities are in this country short of Hanksville, Escalante, etc,. Has there been consideration of a proposal to them about how to operate these canyons responsibly so they can get some bankroll while also becoming free of liability for rescues and such? I know the Navajo Nation is a disorganized place with little to no inter-chapter relations, but would it not be at least worth a thought to presenting something to them, with notable and known canyoneering personalities offering their opinions and ideas on a future of the area that allows cooperation and benefits to all parties involved? Or am I just being completely un-realistic? I'm afraid to say most of my interactions with Navajos involves drinking heavily at Fort Lewis in Durango.....

they are responsible for SAR on their lands. and they have closed the canyons indefinitely to the general public, (though some have found it possible to obtain official permission to enter the canyons).

i mentioned in a different thread in the past that i had heard from someone at the navajo parks and rec. that, during an earlier time when the canyons were closed but when they were also considering the possibilities and issues of reopening them, a group decided to poach one of the closed canyons on christmas eve and needed rescuing, bringing out many of the locals to deal with it. it was after this final straw that the kaibeto chapter decided to keep the canyons closed indefinitely.

[yetigonecrazy]

they are responsible for SAR on their lands. and they have closed the canyons indefinitely to the general public, (though some have found it possible to obtain official permission to enter the canyons).

i mentioned in a different thread in the past that i had heard from someone at the navajo parks and rec. that, during an earlier time when the canyons were closed but when they were also considering the possibilities and issues of reopening them, a group decided to poach one of the closed canyons on christmas eve and needed rescuing, bringing out many of the locals to deal with it. it was after this final straw that the kaibeto chapter decided to keep the canyons closed indefinitely.

Yeah, I read that thread through, I was curious if anyone has seriously considered talking to them POST xmas incident. If that happened in the late 90s or early 00s (I don't remember the year right now) that was the better part of 10 or even 15 years ago, I'm just curious if minds and attitudes have changed over that time, or could be changed with appropriate people and information. I would like to think they could come up with a way to absolve themselves of SAR responsibility and still allow some limited access....No? Yes? Like I said, just curious!

[Iceaxe]

Attempting to get the Navajo slots opened might be a great project for

American Canyoneer

After all, that is why the organization was created and why folks have spent money and time supporting them. Maybe a short note to them mentioning this is a high priority to you would give them something to focus on.

[ratagonia]

Attempting to get the Navajo slots opened might be a great project for

American Canyoneer

After all, that is why the organization was created and why folks have spent money and time supporting them. Maybe a short note to them mentioning this is a high priority to you would give them something to focus on.

It is on the agenda, but there are other things in front of it.

Anyone who has expertise and/or contacts, it would be great if you could contact Rich or Ram in this regard.

Tom

[qedcook]

24 and counting off this list for me. Can't wait to get those Navajo ones done.

[Scott P]

It may be worth bumping this up just for fun.

1. Four of the canyons tied for first place on the list are closed and one of the few methods of doing them is to poach them.

Of course they are still closed with no signs of opening.

2. Many feel a top list of any type puts a lot of pressure on the canyons listed and creates problems.

Some of them have gotten popular, while others still don't seem to get much traffic.

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Anyway, my thoughts on the list:

Personally, I wouldn't rank Cable and Segers Hole higher than Alcatraz (North Fork Twin Corral Box).

I'd probably bump Quandary a little down the list.

I thought Cottonwood was a little better than Burro.

Larry should move up the list. It is certainly better than White Roost and East Fork Pasture, though White Roost especially is still really nice and should be in the Top 40. East Fork Pasture should probably drop off the Top 40 list. It's nice and worth doing, but there are better ones. I might drop the South Fork Robbers Roost as well, though it is nice enough. Personally, I like Right Fork North Creek as well and would put it on the Top 40 list.

Other than that the list is pretty good, at least for the canyons that were covered in the 1st addition. Of course there are a lot of really good ones that are not in either edition.

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I still have several to do. Ones marked in red are ones I have done. Five of them (Navajo Nation) are still closed, so I won't be getting those anytime soon. Oak Creek can only be done with a guide now, so I won't be getting that one either. I don't know if I'll ever do Shenanigans either.

That leaves Heaps, Kolob, Fivemile, Anasazi, and Englestead on the to-do list. Of course there are a lot of other canyons not on this list that I would like to do as well.

Yeah, I read that thread through, I was curious if anyone has seriously considered talking to them POST xmas incident. If that happened in the late 90s or early 00s (I don't remember the year right now) that was the better part of 10 or even 15 years ago,

1995 I believe.

[Canyonero]

The problem with a top 40 list is that it is a top 40 of the ones you've done. And nobody has done all the canyons. I mean, Ram has come closer than anyone I know of, but there's still hundreds he hasn't done. Most of our top 40 lists would include half the canyons we've done!