Sorry I'm late, my dog ate my minivan

[Scott P]

A pack of four pit bulls destroyed their owner's minivan, looking for a 7 week-old stray kitten hiding in the engine compartment. The owner, confused about why his dogs hated his car, drove 25 miles to work in Palm Springs. Thankfully, an animal control agent found and removed the kitten safe and sound. The resilient kitten, whom the Palm Springs Animal Shelter have dubbed Fender Lynx, will go up for pre-adoption this Saturday

http://screen.yahoo.com/dogs-destroy...4-70e58b73187a

[Deathcricket]

Ok on one hand I love my Pitbulls and always hate to see bad publicity surrounding the breed. But on the other hand those pictures are too funny and the story made me LOL at least 4 times. Plus it was very well written. Thumbs up!

[canyonphile]

Yikes ! if those were my dogs (which they wouldn't be, because I'd never own a pitbull terrier or mix, let alone 4, - too unpredictable and, IMO, ugly damn dogs) and they destroyed my car trying to tear up another animal, they'd be gone. Buh-bye. Four bullets would solve that liability problem as well.

First, a kitten they go after. What next - someone's dog, toddler or little kid riding around on a bike? I think it's probably a good bet this wouldn't be an isolated incident.

In fact, here's a story about a pitbull that killed someone's border collie that was in today's news.

There are enough awesome, friendly and beautiful dogs in need of homes, so I have a hard time understanding why anyone would keep dogs like this around. Actually, I feel that way about any dog, regardless of breed - if it attacks humans or other animals that aren't in the manner of self-defense, it should be destroyed.

I'm a bit twitchy about this issue because I have been bitten by dogs (both German Shepherds) when I was trail running, minding my own business, on two separate occasions. Not attacked, but bitten, and they bled and hurt like hell and left scars. One was even on a leash on an urban trail in Prescott. And, I can't even tell you how many times I've had unleashed dogs come running towards me, barking and snapping, and always in areas where they are supposed to be on leashes.

[restrac2000]

Sorry to hear about your attacks. I had no idea about the statistics for pitbulls, that is outrageous. I wouldn't own one either but they don't fit our household in any manner.

I am always amazed at how many owners allow their dogs to wander off leash and without supervision. I have started calling animal control the first time I see them. I spent a while tracking down owners but I found they never changed or cared in the first place. Its a shame the animal suffers for the owners negligence but its better than causing problems, being attacked or putting my dog in a compromised situation that could lead to its euthanization.

But those particular dogs were way out of control.....a minivan? Those things are hard to destroy.

[Deathcricket]

Here is a bulldog tearing up a police car. Pretty amazing to watch.


Edit: Ok and a picture of my 2 pitts who are the most amazing, easiest to train, and most eager to please dogs I have even encountered. I will most likely never own another breed of dog. Although I am looking into getting a Dogo Argentino. And yes they only get the electronic leash, only time they are on a regular leash is when I take them into Home Depot or Petco. I have had hundreds of people come up to my dog, pet it, kiss it, accidentally step on it's tail, and never a hint of a single problem ever. I'm proud to have rescued these dogs from certain extermination (the pound) and made them a vital part of my family.

[canyonphile]

Here is a bulldog tearing up a police car. Pretty amazing to watch.

That looks like a pitbull, not a bulldog; am I missing something?

Edit: Ok and a picture of my 2 pitts who are the most amazing, easiest to train, and most eager to please dogs I have even encountered. I will most likely never own another breed of dog. Although I am looking into getting a Dogo Argentino. And yes they only get the electronic leash, only time they are on a regular leash is when I take them into Home Depot or Petco. I have had hundreds of people come up to my dog, pet it, kiss it, accidentally step on it's tail, and never a hint of a single problem ever. I'm proud to have rescued these dogs from certain extermination (the pound) and made them a vital part of my family.

I'm glad they are working out for you. I hear people all the time rave about how awesome their "pibbles" are, and I know probably most are just fine. However, I still don't like them, or GSD's, which I actually fear now after the biting incidents. I personally think it's a Bad Idea to approach *any* strange dog, no matter how friendly it looks, and pet it, and there is definitely no way in hell I'd approach a pitbull breed and try to pet it.

On the trails when I'm running, I ignore and try to avoid all dogs, and I don't want them anywhere near me, friendly or not.

In a touch of hypocrisy, I suppose, I do have a soft spot for boxers. My sister had one, and he was sort of aggressive towards other dogs, but not people, so we were very careful when walking him in town. When I spent the winter in Bisbee, I'd take him out hiking with me in areas near the border where signs warned of illegal traffic. I let him off-leash when I knew no one was around, but otherwise, would snap it back on the minute I saw someone. He felt like a security blanket; I am quite sure he would have gone after anyone that tried attacking me as he recognized me as part of his "pack".

A portrait painting I did of Monkey for my sister's birthday (she had to have him put to sleep not long after I left):



Just in case anyone thinks I hate dogs...I don't. I can't stand ill-behaved dogs and their inconsiderate owners, though.

[restrac2000]

Beautiful artwork.

I agree....I tend to think most problem dogs are the fault of problem owners and their poor habits. I have known several pit bulls and they have been fine. But their owners were thoughtful people, kind to their dogs, fostered obedience and spent a ton of time socializing them. That said, it seem evidence supports the idea that pitbulls will be as aggressive as their owners will allow or train them to be. More so than most breeds. The statistics seem to support that conclusion.

It just really boils down to extremely owner's of the wrong breed...but then again most dog owner's I have witnessed in Cedar are negligent in regards to their dogs anyways. Its almost an epidemic in this town.

Phillip

[canyonphile]

Agreed, Philip.

I think, in many instances, there is a certain type of person attracted to owning dogs that have a breed reputation as being dangerous. I realize it is a stereotype, but pitbulls are popular with inner city poor people who are into that "badass" mentality and the image owning such a dog projects. And rednecks using them to protect their meth or pot-growing operations. And scumbags like Michael Vick.

And, I would be willing to bet serious money that in the overwhelming majority of these dog ownership cases, the dogs are: a) not socialized; b) have no obedience training; c) are neglected to varying degrees (ranging from being chained outside all day to inadequate food and vet care to fully abused); d) have their aggressive tendencies exploited in some way: if you are trying to adopt out kittens for free, and someone comes along wanting all of them, you can figure there is a good chance they will be used as bait for dogs.

So, when you take an ignorant owner who gets a dog that has been bred for decades, if not centuries, to perform one task: fighting or killing - it doesn't take much for that animal to become a dangerous menace. Despite what pitbull advocates say, their breeds, by their very nature, are going to be more inclined towards attack and killing behavior than other breeds. In fact, that's what most terrier breeds *were* bred for: to kill things!

Compare a PBT to, for example, a golden retriever. Beautiful dogs that are well known to be great with kids and have sweet, gentle dispositions. It would surely take much more effort to turn one into a dangerous attack dog. Ditto a breed like a border collie: designed to protect weaker animals, not kill them. Very attractive, intelligent dogs, but waaaay too hyper for me to own one.

For myself, if I wanted to get a dog that gave a bit of an "intimidation factor", if I lived alone and went out routinely into remote areas by myself, it would be a boxer, doberman or a husky.

For a while, we were really into watching Caesar Millan's "Dog Whisperer" series, and I read one of his books. Really interesting guy, and of course, he's also a defender of pitbulls. But, he's also an expert in dog behavior and he knows how to properly socialize dogs to each other and keep them from being a problem. Your average dog owner doesn't have that insight or knowledge, and as you say, Philip, that's a big part of the problem.

[Deathcricket]

That looks like a pitbull, not a bulldog; am I missing something?

Yeah it's a pitbull. It's also known as an American Bulldog. Or you could just call it a monster that needs to be destroyed. There are differences but for someone who hates the breed it doesn't matter I guess. Glad you at least like boxers, those are awesome family dogs also. I was actually going to get a boxer 1st. My brother has one and I dearly love it. And I saw how great she is with kids and was hooked. But then I started visiting shelters and they are filled to the rim with Pitts. Then saving a dog's life seemed like a better idea, rather than supporting a breeder and paying $700 for a dog. I would say the temperament is equal to a boxer. But because boxers are small and less powerful there is less likely a chance of killing someone. I'm sure it happens though. Any dog can be dangerous. IMO the worst personality dog out there is a chihuahua. I've never met one who was nice, kind, or remotely awesome. But it's little and the worst it can do is scratch you. Ah well.

http://www.pitbulladvocate101.com/BreedInformation.php

[QUOTE] According to Bully Breed Magazine, Bully breeds are generally medium-sized dogs, muscular, and solidly built, with short, glossy coats. The heads and chests are broad, the topline typically level and the legs are muscular, well-boned and straight. Most have pronounced cheek muscles and a confident, wide-mouthed grin. The bully breeds are courageous, tenacious, smart, self-assured and affectionate with people.

[canyonphile]

Yeah it's a pitbull. It's also known as an American Bulldog. Or you could just call it a monster that needs to be destroyed.

That particular individual, yeah - it probably needs to be destroyed. Sorry, but if it's messed-up enough to start tearing up a cop car, it probably isn't a very stable dog to have around.

Glad you at least like boxers, those are awesome family dogs also. I was actually going to get a boxer 1st. My brother has one and I dearly love it. And I saw how great she is with kids and was hooked.

Yep - agreed. I actually wrote a blog post about Monkey and what a great dog he was: http://sonyajohnsonart.blogspot.com/...ng-monkey.html. I would totally own a boxer. My BF's boss owns one (had two, but one had to be put down a couple of years ago), and Joe is a great dog. He would get so wound up when we'd come over to visit and we were bad to be encouraging him, but it was hilarious watching him tear around like a maniac .

But then I started visiting shelters and they are filled to the rim with Pitts. Then saving a dog's life seemed like a better idea, rather than supporting a breeder and paying $700 for a dog.

This is awesome . Seriously . You answered my question about why you decided to go with this breed. I've thought often about what route I'd go if I were to ever get a dog: I like the idea of rescuing one from the shelter, probably a mixed-breed. But, then there's the unknown about their past, or their temperament. If I got a purebred, it would be because of specific traits the breed is known for that I like. I'd seek out a breed rescue organization and get a carefully screened (must not see cats as chew toys or prey) adult dog. Puppies are cute as heck, but too much work.

Any dog can be dangerous. IMO the worst personality dog out there is a chihuahua. I've never met one who was nice, kind, or remotely awesome. But it's little and the worst it can do is scratch you. Ah well.

Watching "Dog Whisperer" makes it clear that any dog can be a problem. I remember a really nasty chihuahua that totally latched onto him, and it made him bleed.

I knew a woman when I was in Flagstaff that had a chihuahua named Frodo. He was the most awesome dog! She did a very good job of socializing him, and she brought him on FOC (Flagstaff Outdoor Club) hikes and many car camping trips. He was friendly and funny and when we were all sitting around a campfire at night, he'd make the rounds, hopping on everyone's lap. He would hike 10 miles if allowed to - a little prissy purse dog he was not ! I think most chihuahuas are not socialized well, and so they are nervous and vibrate and pee when out in public. When Frodo was a puppy, Jill would take him out and thrust him in people's arms, so he was very used to people. You'd have liked him - he was a badass little dog.

http://www.pitbulladvocate101.com/BreedInformation.php

Interesting article. I did not know that top dog was an "American Bulldog"; I think I have heard them called "Bull Terriers"?. I think of bulldogs as the short, squatty guys with the smashed faces. Like Meathead, Harry Callahan's dog in "Sudden Impact".

I did know that "pitbull" or "pitbull terrier" defines a type and encompasses different breeds, including the Staffordshire terrier, which is a European breed, right?

What I found interesting in the description of all those breeds is the repeated reference to their "aggression". It says they are no more aggressive towards humans than other dogs, but then...it says, repeatedly, that an experienced trainer can keep that from happening. Sounds a bit contradictory . Clearly, aggression is an issue with these breeds, and they are best owned by responsible, experienced people and careful breeders (which is clearly NOT happening much of the time).

BTW, I don't actually "hate" them. That's a strong word. I just don't like them, and I wouldn't own one (but I feel the same way about basset hounds, most poodles and dachshunds - ick!). I don't find them to be remotely attractive with those huge, blocky heads and squinty pig-like eyes. The cropped ears make it worse. Maybe I'm shallow , but attractiveness is an important quality in a dog to me.

For looks, I'd take a Vizsla, Saluki, doberman or Malamute/husky, which I think are absolutely gorgeous dogs. I have a friend that has purebred GSP's, and they are also attractive. There are some purse dogs that are pretty damn cute, like Papillons.

But, someone has to give lovin' to the meathead fugly dogs like the PBT's, and I'm glad it's you .

[restrac2000]

I would never go with a purebred dog again after owning so many mutts my entire life. Mutts just have fewer health problems. That, and mutts are much easier to find in rescue shelters which seems the best way to go with my values. We have a Catahoula Lepoard/Mountain Cur mix that is absolutely an amazing addition to our family and home. She has changed our lives.

[Deathcricket]

That particular individual, yeah - it probably needs to be destroyed. Sorry, but if it's messed-up enough to start tearing up a cop car, it probably isn't a very stable dog to have around.

No I agree. I wouldn't have a problem with the cop in the video putting a couple bullets in that dog and billing the owner for the damage. Inexcusable behavior. The previous story though with them chasing the cat into a minivan, not sure. My dogs are very friendly towards cats and all small critters (we own a cat). But it's natural for a larger animal to chase prey items. I had a 15lb Jack Russell Terrier (like the dog on Frasier) and that dude would chase cats, mice, lizards, anything no matter what. I was never able to break him his entire life and he always had to be on a leash. He would dig a hole to China after a squirrel if I let him.

Yep - agreed. I actually wrote a blog post about Monkey and what a great dog he was: http://sonyajohnsonart.blogspot.com/...ng-monkey.html. I would totally own a boxer. My BF's boss owns one (had two, but one had to be put down a couple of years ago), and Joe is a great dog. He would get so wound up when we'd come over to visit and we were bad to be encouraging him, but it was hilarious watching him tear around like a maniac .

Ha that's funny, my dad hates pitbulls too, but my dog won him over. He always gives him this special circular bone he has and then barks at my dad until he chases him around the house. He goes just slowly enough so my 65yr old dad can keep up and "almost" catch him. He has this circuit route through the living room around the kitchen and then back through my office. Same path every time and does it only with my dad. My parents only visit like twice a year but my dog still remembers him and saves this special bone just for him. Normally I don't let him get riled up when people visit, but it's a game they play and I make an exception because it reminds my dad how smart my pitt is.

This is awesome . Seriously . You answered my question about why you decided to go with this breed. I've thought often about what route I'd go if I were to ever get a dog: I like the idea of rescuing one from the shelter, probably a mixed-breed. But, then there's the unknown about their past, or their temperament. If I got a purebred, it would be because of specific traits the breed is known for that I like. I'd seek out a breed rescue organization and get a carefully screened (must not see cats as chew toys or prey) adult dog. Puppies are cute as heck, but too much work.

Past treatment is a legit concern I think. I try to get mine when they are puppies. I've had zero problems potty training them, but I have lost a couple shoes, and he's dug a couple holes in my backyard. but nothing major. But any rescue shelter will most likely let you take the dog for a couple days and "test drive" it to make sure the fit and temperament is right. One of the dogs I first got was cute as a button but just too hyper for me. I like more mellow dogs, but I also like them to perform when needed. So I was looking for a dog that could go on a hike, run, bike ride, or hang out with me while I rock climb. I needed an athletic dog, larger size that could cover large distances and carry their own water and food. Pitt type is pretty much the only dog that do that. So for me it was more the utility rather than the look of the dog. None of mine have docked tails or clipped ears, completely natural. But I admit I love the look, I like how strong and buff they are, and I like it when people come up to me and ask if they can pet him and comment on how tough he looks, but how friendly he is.
There is a puppy in our local shelter I am so wanting to grab! She is super cute and would make a great addition to our family. But 3 dogs is just too much I think. I don't want to become like a cat lady with too many pets, haha.
http://www.facebook.com/media/set/?s...8076162&type=1

Watching "Dog Whisperer" makes it clear that any dog can be a problem. I remember a really nasty chihuahua that totally latched onto him, and it made him bleed.

Yeah pretty sure I saw that one, he was trying to give it a haircut right? it was scared of a pair of scissors?

I knew a woman when I was in Flagstaff that had a chihuahua named Frodo. He was the most awesome dog! She did a very good job of socializing him, and she brought him on FOC (Flagstaff Outdoor Club) hikes and many car camping trips. He was friendly and funny and when we were all sitting around a campfire at night, he'd make the rounds, hopping on everyone's lap. He would hike 10 miles if allowed to - a little prissy purse dog he was not ! I think most chihuahuas are not socialized well, and so they are nervous and vibrate and pee when out in public. When Frodo was a puppy, Jill would take him out and thrust him in people's arms, so he was very used to people. You'd have liked him - he was a badass little dog.

Already like the name! I would love to finally meet one that didn't make me sad they exist. Every one I see looks like it's in constant fear, shivering, and miserable.

http://www.pitbulladvocate101.com/BreedInformation.php

Interesting article. I did not know that top dog was an "American Bulldog"; I think I have heard them called "Bull Terriers"?. I think of bulldogs as the short, squatty guys with the smashed faces. Like Meathead, Harry Callahan's dog in "Sudden Impact".

I did know that "pitbull" or "pitbull terrier" defines a type and encompasses different breeds, including the Staffordshire terrier, which is a European breed, right?

What I found interesting in the description of all those breeds is the repeated reference to their "aggression". It says they are no more aggressive towards humans than other dogs, but then...it says, repeatedly, that an experienced trainer can keep that from happening. Sounds a bit contradictory . Clearly, aggression is an issue with these breeds, and they are best owned by responsible, experienced people and careful breeders (which is clearly NOT happening much of the time).

BTW, I don't actually "hate" them. That's a strong word. I just don't like them, and I wouldn't own one (but I feel the same way about basset hounds, most poodles and dachshunds - ick!). I don't find them to be remotely attractive with those huge, blocky heads and squinty pig-like eyes. The cropped ears make it worse. Maybe I'm shallow , but attractiveness is an important quality in a dog to me.

For looks, I'd take a Vizsla, Saluki, doberman or Malamute/husky, which I think are absolutely gorgeous dogs. I have a friend that has purebred GSP's, and they are also attractive. There are some purse dogs that are pretty damn cute, like Papillons.

But, someone has to give lovin' to the meathead fugly dogs like the PBT's, and I'm glad it's you .

[/QUOTE]

Yeah you might be thinking of English Bulldogs. They have breathing problems, heart problems, and would not make a good running companion at all, hehe. There are lots of breeds of bulldogs, but they are the most comical looking IMO.


Staffordshires are easiest to recognize because they are tiny. 35ish pounds put them smaller than most boxers. Not sure about their descent, I would have to look it up. But if you see a tiny Pitt, most likely a staffy. bull terriers are like the spuds mckenzie or that Target dog with the rings on his eye. They have a very long eggshaped head and that is the easiest way to identify them. Even though it doesn't specify a size, they are usually on the smaller side, like 35ish pounds also. Compared to a American Bulldog which is like 85ish pounds easily 3 times their size and a square head not egg shaped.

As far as the article, I think what they are trying to reinforce is that ANY bully type breed needs to be kept in check. They need constant training and exercise. They constantly test you to see where you are and they stand in the pack. I actually enjoy it. For example, our dogs are not allowed on the furniture. But they always come and put their head on our bed and look for an invitation to jump on it and cuddle with us. It has never come in 3 years, but every night they still look at us with longing eyes like this will be the night they get to sleep in our bed. Before they get fed they have to sit in front of their food and stare at us for 10 seconds and wait until we give them permission to eat. The aroma of food is tempting sitting inches from them. I sometimes break eye contact and walk away without giving them permission, a test of their loyalty. Stuff like that. They are always gently pushing the boundaries we give them, seeing where they are on the food chain. Without proper training and discipline, I can see one of these breeds dominating a household and taking over easy, then becoming aggressive.

I still have a little trouble at the dog park now and then. They absolutely regard humans as the leaders, and I've never seen a hint of aggression, but they do try to claim what I call "2nd maggot position". So humans are the boss, but who is the 2nd boss? They wrestle and run around vying for dominance over other dogs. Sometimes it breaks out in fights and it's instant and very violent. I don't always see the warning signs as they start. I've never had to go the hospital or anything like that. But once he got in a fight with this Golden Retriever named Gator, and as they we tusselling another dog, a border collie, went into the fray and my dog's huge head collided with her nose. She had a nasty nose bleed! Gator and he were just fine of course, not even a scratch. but it's loud and pretty scary to witness two dogs going at it. And then of course I'm the guy with the pitbull and the other guy has a sweetheart Golden Retriever. never mind the fact his dog jumped on mines back and started humping him like a bitch. Doesn't matter.





And one last thing, the video says that Pitbulls make up a large percentage of human deaths, yet make up a small percent of the overall dog population. While true this is grossly misleading. I think if you factor out small dogs under 40ish pounds which are incapable of killing a human, you could get a more accurate result. Further if you look at the percentages of the population you can see they really arent that dangerous. As a percentage of the population that exists, Rotts are more likely to kill people. I don't have time to look up the actual facts, gotta run, but I think the number is 30 people died from pitts our of a population of 5 million. Not saying they aren't extremely powerful and dangerous, anyone who's seen one on a spring pole will not argue this point. They are extremely powerful animals.

[Deathcricket]

I heard this yesterday, reminded me of this thread. Can't stop laughing!!!

Bumpage, couple of F-bombs in there....

[StudChild]