Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 123 LastLast
Results 21 to 40 of 52

Thread: Armstrong faces lifetime ban, loss of 7 Tour titles

  1. #21

    Re: Armstrong faces lifetime ban, loss of 7 Tour titles

    I agree its odd that the evidence USADA claims to have didn't make it into the hands of the federal investigation. This could all be turned on its head of UCI finds their evidence unworthy, etc.

    That said, there are many careers in which this type of outcome happens. Most professions have a governing body that acts outside the scope of the state or federal system. Lawyers and doctors are two basic examples. They can be held accountable to these bodies and dismissed from their duties and stripped of titles. It happens all the time, i.e. not just sport.

    I for one say use the best technology possible for testing doping. The case we are talking about has hard evidence from only 2-3 years ago in Armstrong's racing career. Mechanisms have been found to test for tampering and hiding doping. The athletes know these agencies maintain samples for years. They sign contracts and agree to these methods when participating.

    Armstrong comes across as petty and lightweight in this to me. If this was a major problem then we would see a concerted, continuous outcry from all ranks of the cycling community to help foster change. Instead, we see limited cries of impropriety that happen after they are accused of malpractice and asked to participate in a hearing.

    I say purge the dopers and make a statement that maintains the integrity of sport. If the mighty fall in the process than so be it. Cheating in any form should not be accepted. And no matter how he spins this in his personal statements his choice not participate in the hearing is an admission of guilt.

    Beware of the contracts you sign....you could be forced to become a Human Centipad.

  2. # ADS
    Circuit advertisement
    Join Date
    Always
    Posts
    Many
     

  3. #22
    Bottom Tier Superhero Iceaxe's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    City of Salt
    Posts
    19,254

    Re: Armstrong faces lifetime ban, loss of 7 Tour titles

    I like the way NASCAR runs things.... they never strip wins. The reason being is fans deserve a winner when they leave the track and anything less cheats the fans and support of racing.

    Cheating is handled with fines, suspensions, yada, yada...

    As a fan of bike racing you should be outraged at this witch hunt of Armstrong as it will do nothing but damage the sport.... guilty or not... this will really hurt racing. Sometimes folks just need to use s little commonsense.

    Sent using Tapatalk

  4. #23
    Outdoor Guru DOSS's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Draper Utah
    Posts
    1,190

    Re: Armstrong faces lifetime ban, loss of 7 Tour titles

    Obviously there will not be agreement in this between some of us, such is the reason this doping thing has been going on for years not just here but across many sports.

    How about we just make the drug usage and such legal. If they want to push their bodies to the limit let them do it, it evens the playing field as everyone would have the option to dope or not to dope and gets rid of all of these arguments and would allow the promoters to spend more $$ on the venue etc since they wouldn't have to put $$ into anti-doping
    Tacoma Said - If Scott he asks you to go on a hike, ask careful questions like "Is it going to be on a trail?" "What are the chances it will kill me?" etc. Maybe "Will there be sack-biting ants along the way?"

  5. #24

    Re: Armstrong faces lifetime ban, loss of 7 Tour titles

    I am not against allowing doping, thought it would radically change the face of the official sport. I think it would also make it harder for most un-sponsored athletes to ever compete (harder than now). Doping isn't cheap.

    To Shane....there is merit with that system. And maybe cycling needs to consider changing its rules. That said, when the athletes cheat they are hurting the fans as well.

    I am fine with it hurting the commercial side of cycling. Most people are claiming its rampant anyways. Let it take a beating if the cyclist are dopers (and its illegal). Wash the system clean and penalize them to kingdom come. Maybe a new line of non-cheaters will take over and help. Who knows.

    That said...in all of us this, the last person I care about is Armstrong the athlete.

  6. #25
    Bottom Tier Superhero Iceaxe's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    City of Salt
    Posts
    19,254

    Re: Armstrong faces lifetime ban, loss of 7 Tour titles

    Bottomline... I spent 7 years of my life watching nearly every stage of the TOF. If they start stripping titles from decades past they will lose me and millions of other fans. They need to do what is best for the sport today.... not 20 years ago. To me this has little to do with Armstrong and everything to do with the direction of the sport.

    Do you think the NFL really cares that many of the 80's Steelers were juicing? They would never consider stripping Superbowl's from past decades.

    Sent using Tapatalk

  7. #26
    Trail Master jamesdak's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Ogden Valley, Utah
    Posts
    112

    Re: Armstrong faces lifetime ban, loss of 7 Tour titles

    Quote Originally Posted by restrac2000 View Post
    There is blood evidence from two years of racing that supports the accusation he was doping and cheating...

    The agency is a non-profit with congressional approval and process....very different than stated above.

    They have evidence that he cheated. The agency has nothing to gain from going to court with bad physical evidence. It would tank their organization and change the industry. That said, Armstrong obviously had something to lose by choosing not to go to trial (his choice). If he was actually proven guilty than he would lose his fan base, which is the only thing he has besides his money.

    *PS....I mostly ignored the stories and went to the doping agency for information.
    Yet the government chose not to prosecute despite having access to this very same "evidence". This stinks to holy hell...
    Exercise is the elixir of life!

  8. Likes DOSS liked this post
  9. #27
    Trail Master jamesdak's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Ogden Valley, Utah
    Posts
    112

    Re: Armstrong faces lifetime ban, loss of 7 Tour titles

    Quote Originally Posted by Iceaxe View Post
    Bottomline... I spent 7 years of my life watching nearly every stage of the TOF. If they start stripping titles from decades past they will lose me and millions of other fans. They need to do what is best for the sport today.... not 20 years ago. To me this has little to do with Armstrong and everything to do with the direction of the sport.

    Do you think the NFL really cares that many of the 80's Steelers were juicing? They would never consider stripping Superbowl's from past decades.

    Sent using Tapatalk
    Hey back off the Steelers!!!!!!!!!! And those Super Bowl wins were in the 70s by the way. The 80s were quite the drought for the best team in football ever!!
    Exercise is the elixir of life!

  10. #28
    Trail Master jamesdak's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Ogden Valley, Utah
    Posts
    112

    Re: Armstrong faces lifetime ban, loss of 7 Tour titles

    Ok, here is my very simple opinion. Doping or not did he beat a majority of the competitors on a level playing field? I'd say yes! Does it really matter now, no. Should money be spent on this, no. Should cycling be clean, yes! Is it, ummm I don't really think so. But you know what, he passed the tests by the standards of the time, where do you draw the line? Can anyone of us even come close to him on a bike even today, somehow I doubt it...

    And despite everything, watching the TDF is entertaining and I loved watching him dominate.
    Exercise is the elixir of life!

  11. #29
    Bottom Tier Superhero Iceaxe's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    City of Salt
    Posts
    19,254

    Re: Armstrong faces lifetime ban, loss of 7 Tour titles

    Quote Originally Posted by jamesdak View Post
    Ok, here is my very simple opinion.

    Excellent


    Sent using Tapatalk

  12. #30
    Outdoor Guru denaliguide's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    I'm not sure anymore
    Posts
    2,714

    Re: Armstrong faces lifetime ban, loss of 7 Tour titles

    i vote for lance. literally hundreds of times he peed in t he cup. never a failure.

    i would have gotten tired of the battle long ago. just because he gives up now is not an admission of guilt.

    what is the standard? drug testing or testimony from others who lost to lance? you can't have both.

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/sports...c41_story.html
    I can see your point, but you are still full of shit!

  13. #31

    Re: Armstrong faces lifetime ban, loss of 7 Tour titles

    There is more than testimony, which I agree is weak evidence on its own. USADA, the organization that UCI and US Cycling agreed to test its athletes of the World Anti-Doping pledges, claims to have hard evidence that Armstrong tampered with blood samples. That is physical evidence. The World Anti-Doping Agency has stated they recognize the validity of the evidence and the arbitration standards set forth by USADA. We have yet to hear UCI's final explanation and choices.

    I can understand Shane's explanation and perspective as a cycling spectator. This is a major blackeye on the sport and USADA seems to have handled themselves poorly up until the onset of the case. I am not sure there is an easy answer to that situation.

    That said, it seems that the commercial success of the sport is a different situation than the maintenance and integrity of the anti-doping pledges the professional cycling community signed. They decided that the principles of sport were more valid and important than the success and reputation of individual athletes. I agree with that prioritization. I would also say that pledge trumps the simple narratives of finality and wins that the biking community is seeking. Doping and cheating in other various forms have ruined many sports. Cycling was/is trying to steer clear of that outcome. They have done so imperfectly and the cheaters seem to be ahead of the curve.

    I stick to the importance of the binding agreements the sport and athletes knowingly signed. Without the sport is a farce. But I should admit I stopped watching most commercialized sports ages ago, largely for these same reasons. College seems the last bastion of true sport and even then it has been influenced by the same issues.

    Phillip

  14. #32
    Bottom Tier Superhero Iceaxe's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    City of Salt
    Posts
    19,254

    Re: Armstrong faces lifetime ban, loss of 7 Tour titles

    I've noticed no one (outside the media) really gives a crap what the USADA thinks or says.... some things just can't be stripped away.

    Armstrong will always be a 7-time TOF winner, no matter what the USADA says. He will always be introduced as such at every dinner, speech or event that he attends the rest of his life.

    Or in the immortal words of Chuck Yeager.... "Sometimes you get a pooch that just can't be screwed".




  15. #33
    Trail Master jamesdak's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Ogden Valley, Utah
    Posts
    112

    Re: Armstrong faces lifetime ban, loss of 7 Tour titles

    Quote Originally Posted by restrac2000 View Post

    But I should admit I stopped watching most commercialized sports ages ago, largely for these same reasons. College seems the last bastion of true sport and even then it has been influenced by the same issues.

    Phillip
    College sports...really?? They are just as "win at any cost" as any other sports organization.
    Exercise is the elixir of life!

  16. #34

    Re: Armstrong faces lifetime ban, loss of 7 Tour titles

    I agree with the big schools and many football franchises but outside of those there is still genuine sport. I have seen it at SUU while being here. I should also correct my previous comment.....highest level, not only. I think outside of that money just pollutes the history too much. IMHO, others mileage will very.

  17. #35

    Re: Armstrong faces lifetime ban, loss of 7 Tour titles

    I just watched as SUU celebrated its first NCAA title and then a 14th place Olympics finnish for Cam Levins. It was a huge moment for most of our community and he handled himself with grace the entire way.

  18. #36
    Outdoor Guru denaliguide's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    I'm not sure anymore
    Posts
    2,714

    Re: Armstrong faces lifetime ban, loss of 7 Tour titles

    Quote Originally Posted by restrac2000 View Post
    College seems the last bastion of true sport.

    Phillip
    seriously? i'm sure you meant to say farm clubs for the pros.

    and if it's played with a ball, it's a game.
    I can see your point, but you are still full of shit!

  19. #37

    Re: Armstrong faces lifetime ban, loss of 7 Tour titles

    As the last bastion?.....maybe, haven't been in a town/city with one for a while. The Tidewater Tides (NY Mets Farm Team) had some of the original appeal when I was growing up as a kid. Haven't been back there in a while. I do remember the last year or two it being ego fest for several of the players who were shipped down from the main teams.

    One of my overall complaints about commercial sports is the cult of personality that has emerged (to a much larger extent). I see this as directly related to Armstrong and hence my lack of concern for the outcomes for him. I think it has drastically changed the personality of the game/endeavor. I see the response to Armstrong largely being about him versus the longterm integrity of cycling. His personality (really a brand) has more merit to many people than the rules and bounds of professionalism and sportsmanship. I have heard a range of comments but the most common is that (coming from his fans) he likely cheated but it was an even playing field considering the rampant doping. I believe it was the editorial in WaPo that mentioned how little doping benefits the drive and will to win. To me, I say who cares about that. I don't care about his wins, immense as they were. Its not why I watch the sports I do. I watch to see teams or individuals competing on relatively even means across the board.

    We are losing that option as viewers left and right. Football teams are putting out bounty lists. Baseball teams that have the extra millions to maintain superiority that only money can buy. Cycling...where only dopers seem to be able to win now....according to some of the leading fans, commentators and critiques.

    Its an idealized stance but I am willing to stand by it. It would be pleasant to think that a non-doping, honest, hard working athlete can still make it work in most of the sports. Without these hardline stances I don't think thats a realistic outcome.

  20. #38
    Bottom Tier Superhero Iceaxe's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    City of Salt
    Posts
    19,254

    Re: Armstrong faces lifetime ban, loss of 7 Tour titles

    Hahaha... the USADA is becoming as huge joke. Now they are telling Armstrong he can keep 5 TOF titles if he comes clean... this will not end well for the USADA... watch and see... no one is backing them up and instead they are distancing themselves....

    Sent using Tapatalk

  21. #39

    Re: Armstrong faces lifetime ban, loss of 7 Tour titles

    Not really the truth.....they offered that deal to him initially and according to their rules regarding statutes of limitations. Armstrong passed on it. He did say its still on the table but that seems an unlikely outcome.

    "No is backing them up"? Really, how about the World Anti-Doping Agency? UCI hasn't made an official statement. Not sure what other agencies matter at this point.

  22. #40

    Armstrong faces lifetime ban, loss of 7 Tour titles

    Armstrong set for tell-all interview with Oprah Winfrey



    Lance Armstrong will give his first interview since being stripped of his seven Tour de France titles later this month when he appears on the 'Oprah's Next Chapter' program on her eponymous US cable television network.

    The interview, which will go to air on January 17 will also be available simultaneously through the network's website.

    Armstrong was the focus of the United States Anti-Doping Agency's investigation which labelled the US Postal team's operation as "the most sophisticated, professionalized and successful doping program that sport has ever seen" on October 10, 2012. USADA stripped Armstrong of all results from August 1, 1998 when he declined to contest charges of doping in late August and handed the Texan a lifetime ban all of which was later ratified by cycling's governing body, the UCI.

    The 41-year-old will give the interview from his home in Texas.

    A media release on Oprah.com said that "Armstrong will address the alleged doping scandal, years of accusations of cheating, and charges of lying about the use of performance-enhancing drugs throughout his storied cycling career."

    http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/arms...-oprah-winfrey
    I have decided to stick with love. Hate is too great a burden to bear. -Martin Luther King, Jr.





Similar Threads

  1. Lance Armstrong - Doping?
    By CarpeyBiggs in forum The Sports Junkie
    Replies: 11
    Last Post: 03-29-2013, 11:13 AM
  2. [News] Lance Armstrong to compete in Ogden Xterra
    By Sombeech in forum Mountain Biking & Cycling
    Replies: 9
    Last Post: 09-16-2011, 07:17 PM
  3. Lessons For A Lifetime
    By Iceaxe in forum Canyoneering
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 02-04-2009, 03:44 PM

Visitors found this page by searching for:

Outdoor Forum

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •