Kolob creek, Aug 29 - Sept 3

[ratagonia]

Generally, the approaches on century old logging roads don't change from season to season.

I should have said that your book is my primary source for only a few key points: approach, exit, and longest rap. Approaches are the area in which I would offer some points of clarification. Once in the canyon I've found that I possess the capacity for problem solving and rational thought sufficient to get me through safely.

I was trying to be gracious, Tom, but you talk to me like I'm stupid, and it gets old.

I'm sorry if you took it as talking down to you, Bootboy. That was not my intention.

You gave me a cryptic lead-in after I asked for clarification - I made my best guess as to what you were talking about. I guessed wrong. Sorry.

I guess I have to realize the general audience you (and others) are offering the information to though. I suppose it's actually a good thing and hopefully it keeps people out who shouldn't be in there. I understand the rope bit, but I come from a long alpine climbing background where you are equally screwed if you stick a rope on rappel. I've learned that this is a reality and take every measure to insure it doesn't happen, in the mountains as well as in the canyons.

I've done some alpine climbing too. Sometimes, not always, in an alpine environment, there may be the possibility of climbing up the rappel pitch. There may be the possibility of jugging the rope, while setting protection like a lead. There is rarely this possibility in a canyon environment.

Tom

[qedcook]

Bootboy said: "I was trying to gracious Tom but you talk to me like Im stupid, and it gets old."

Amen, bootboy. Same thing happened to me when I descended Kolob on Memorial Day. Tom talked down to me like I was an idoit, and put words in my mouth I never said, trying to make me out to be a know-nothing noob.

Tom's lecturing like he knows it all again. Get over yourself, Tom. You got issues, man.

[Bootboy]

I've done some alpine climbing too. Sometimes, not always, in an alpine environment, there may be the possibility of climbing up the rappel pitch. There may be the possibility of jugging the rope, while setting protection like a lead. There is rarely this possibility in a canyon environment.

Tom[/I][/COLOR]

This, I know. I've done many a route in remote areas that do not rap the ascent route where you do not have this option. The one time in 12 years that I stuck a rope I had the luxury of a short, easy pitch to recover it. Recognizing the risks and mitigating the hazards are part of both activities. This type of thinking is something I am very familiar with. I spend a lot of time in the backcountry in all 4 seasons and have learned a thing or two about acceptable levels of risk and making good decisions, be it avalanche hazards, lightning storms, flash floods, animal encounters, injuries, and so on. While fairly new to canyoneering, I am not new to critical thinking, good judgement, rope skill, and preparation. You must regularly deal with people who lack all of these to respond the way you often do.

[ratagonia]

This, I know. I've done many a route in remote areas that do not rap the ascent route where you do not have this option. The one time in 12 years that I stuck a rope I had the luxury of a short, easy pitch to recover it. Recognizing the risks and mitigating the hazards are part of both activities. This type of thinking is something I am very familiar with. I spend a lot of time in the backcountry in all 4 seasons and have learned a thing or two about acceptable levels of risk and making good decisions, be it avalanche hazards, lightning storms, flash floods, animal encounters, injuries, and so on. While fairly new to canyoneering, I am not new to critical thinking, good judgement, rope skill, and preparation.

You must regularly deal with people who lack all of these to respond the way you often do.

Yes. And, of course, when responding to YOU on a public forum, WE are having a conversation in public. Thus I go into extensive detail at a beginner level on many occasions, where it may not be appropriate to the original question.

I'm be very interested in where you find the descriptions wanting - sounds like the approach, which is concise, and therefore not particularly detailed.

Also, you said the Kolob description is overly-dramatic? Did you mean MY description? I just re-read it (in the book) and did not think it was over-the-top.

Tom

[Bootboy]

Anyway...
Just did Kolob again this week. A friend of mine got jealous after my trip 3 weeks ago and twisted my arm to go back, haha! My GF and I reluctantly (not) agreed to go do it again. Having worked out a more straight forward route and minus route finding difficulties, we saved about 40 minutes on the approach over our first trip. No helmetless clowns in the canyon either; dislocating their shoulders on the way... The water was just a trickle but was somewhere around 40

[ratagonia]

[QUOTE=Bootboy;512298]Anyway...
Just did Kolob again this week. A friend of mine got jealous after my trip 3 weeks ago and twisted my arm to go back, haha! My GF and I reluctantly (not) agreed to go do it again. Having worked out a more straight forward route and minus route finding difficulties, we saved about 40 minutes on the approach over our first trip. No helmetless clowns in the canyon either; dislocating their shoulders on the way... The water was just a trickle but was somewhere around 40

[Mountaineer]

Thanks for the update. I'm thinking of trying this very soon if I can get a day away. Fantastic you have the time for a "back to back" trip, and your friend is lucky to know you.

[Bootboy]

Thanks for the update. I'm thinking of trying this very soon if I can get a day away. Fantastic you have the time for a "back to back" trip, and your friend is lucky to know you.

I'm lucky to have a girlfriend who is into this stuff.

One recommendation: neoprene gloves and socks, maybe a hood. My 5/4 suit was sufficient, just keep moving

[Mountaineer]

I'm lucky to have a girlfriend who is into this stuff.

One recommendation: neoprene gloves and socks, maybe a hood. My 5/4 suit was sufficient, just keep moving

Just got back from doing Kolob. The neoprene hood made all the difference. Good advice. We started to get cold (mostly hands), and the hood changed the experience from a "hustle" to a "relax and enjoy". Fun canyon, but the return is long...

[dustinsc]

So the water was cold, but how was the water level? Any residual flow? Just called the water district and they said they have no plans to release water the week of my planned trip.

[Bootboy]

When we did it last week, there was only a trickle. Just residual flow. But still very fresh.

[Mountaineer]

When we did it last week, there was only a trickle. Just residual flow. But still very fresh.

Yesterday was about the same, I would say a steady small flow (garden hose).

[dustinsc]

Thanks!

Yesterday was about the same, I would say a steady small flow (garden hose).