Zion Park - First Time Impressions

[Felicia]

Shane, it's confusing to introduce metric into this conversation.

I hope this helps:

[ratagonia]

I don't know where you are getting your lengths from.... but.... if you use the staged entrance to englestead the rappels are 80' & 200' and the route can easily be done with two 60 meter ropes. We have done this route numerous times and only used 60's. Just make sure your ropes have not shrunk.

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60 meters being 200 feet, and a standard length for ropes, when new. But ropes tend to shrink in use, so you gotta be careful.

Tom

[maarten.1975]

Shane, it's confusing to introduce metric into this conversation.
I hope this helps:
[pic]

Hehehe, for me it was finally becoming clear, now that Shane started using the correct measurement-system.....

[Felicia]

Hehehe, for me it was finally becoming clear, now that Shane started using the correct measurement-system.....

I agree with you as metric is my first choice. My concern and my experience is that mixing metric into this conversation might be dangerous.

[maarten.1975]

Fully correct and I fully agree Felicia!

[Mountaineer]

Even though this thread subject is still incorrect with Zion's'....., but for completeness: I'm assuming a new 60m rope (less than 200') will not come up short? Blue water has a 61m rope, and I suppose you could also use your tip toes for making up a fraction of 1m.

[Iceaxe]

but for completeness: I'm assuming a new 60m rope (less than 200') will not come up short?

I've actually done the route with two 185' ropes using the mid-station entrance. If your 200' rope is short you will find a large ledge about 15' above the canyon floor you can stage a third rappel from. The lower ledge is HUGE compared to the one at the top and there is a bolt hidden in the back corner.

And I know this because..... Englestead was the first time I realized how much a rope could shrink. I used the same 60 meter (200') climbing ropes the year before and they were about 1' from the canyon floor. The next year I used the same ropes on the same rappel and the ropes were about 10' short.

After that I did a little research and discovered that 5% to 10% shrinkage for ropes is not uncommon, particularly when dealing with canyoneering ropes that are subject to numerous wet and dry cycles.

[B-rizzle]

Great TR I would also rate Pine Creek a little higher but everyone is entitled to their opinion. Good job on blazing through the trails though 7 for 7 days is a good track record.

[flatiron]

I've actually done the route with two 185' ropes using the mid-station entrance. If your 200' rope is short you will find a large ledge about 15' above the canyon floor you can stage a third rappel from. The lower ledge is HUGE compared to the one at the top and there is a bolt hidden in the back corner.

And I know this because..... Englestead was the first time I realized how much a rope could shrink. I used the same 60 meter (200') climbing ropes the year before and they were about 1' from the canyon floor. The next year I used the same ropes on the same rappel and the ropes were about 10' short.

After that I did a little research and discovered that 5% to 10% shrinkage for ropes is not uncommon, particularly when dealing with canyoneering ropes that are subject to numerous wet and dry cycles.

Hey I used YOUR beta!!! Or maybe it was Tom's. ONE of you guys screwed me up!!!

Welllllllll, actually it was me. My old rope had shrunk and I needed to stop at huge lower ledge and do a last 3rd rap. Still much better than doing to 300' rope stuff. (buying, loaning, carrying, retrieving, paying someone (NO WAY), or worst of all going back up at end of day. Just my opinion.

[ratagonia]

Hey I used YOUR beta!!! Or maybe it was Tom's. ONE of you guys screwed me up!!!

Welllllllll, actually it was me. My old rope had shrunk and I needed to stop at huge lower ledge and do a last 3rd rap. Still much better than doing to 300' rope stuff. (buying, loaning, carrying, retrieving, paying someone (NO WAY), or worst of all going back up at end of day. Just my opinion.

Stopping at the LARGE ledge is not a problem. But some have had a bad day, and stopped at a very small ledge. From the Large Ledge, look up about 15 feet - there are a couple of bolts.

Which I think is well less than 200 feet from the anchor in the corner.

Tom

[Taylor]

FWIW: 60 meters equals 197'. However, my first two 60m Imlay ropes were sold to me 204' and 208' long. I'm assuming this was intentional and thanks for the extra. On the subject of ropes and rappel length, it seems like many raps are exaggerated or rounded up in the two beta sources most of us use. I don't mind, just curious. For example, the final rap in Imlay is given as 130' or 135' but we did it with a 120' rope my buddy mistakenly took instead of his 150. Anyone else?

[shan1203]

Nice TR!

[ratagonia]

FWIW: 60 meters equals 197'. However, my first two 60m Imlay ropes were sold to me 204' and 208' long. I'm assuming this was intentional and thanks for the extra. On the subject of ropes and rappel length, it seems like many raps are exaggerated or rounded up in the two beta sources most of us use. I don't mind, just curious. For example, the final rap in Imlay is given as 130' or 135' but we did it with a 120' rope my buddy mistakenly took instead of his 150. Anyone else?

Imlay ropes generally have extra length of 1 to 2 feet per hundred. This is common in the industry.

But of course, they shrink. So who knows how long it is now?

Us beta-providers grab some ropes and go do canyons. Somewhat later we write them up.

- Hey Brian, how long was that final rappel?
- Well, we had that 200'er of yours, and it seemed like there was 50 feet left over.

Next time, you bring shorter ropes. So the process takes a while to zero in on the 'exact length'.

But then again, that last rappel on Imlay is about 115 feet (using the new anchor). But should I publish it as that? I tend to pad things a little bit so people don't get caught out when they are not aware that their rope has shrunk.

Would you rather have us round DOWN?

Tom

[Slipknot]

Nice TR ! !