Accident Report - Rigging Failure During a Rappel

[Brian in SLC]

Poster for the upcoming Italian rendezvous:




What's interesting to note, is, how the contingency is rigged. Easy, fast, simple.

[dustinsc]

That "brake" step looks critical to me.

[Iceaxe]

It also seems strange/pointless for you to bring anything up on Heaps Canyon since anything that did happen (if it did) would have happened well over a decade ago.

The Heaps accident was 5 years ago (2007) and I think it has a major relevance to this discussion. One of the contributing factors to the accident was needlessly complicating the rigging.

[Scott P]

Original:



Rich's:



A few points of confusion (I guess I'd have to see it in person):

1. I'm still a bit confused about the purple sling in the first photo. It can't be used as a tagline and it isn't a backup anchor. Are people tying off to this at the top of the rappel?

2. I'm also slightly confused about the second upper biner (the one on the left) in the first photo; the rope goes through the biner and the RQ/L. Is this by design?

3. Seems like the system would work better in the second photo (Rich's) because it is clear of the rock. The one in the first photo it seems that there are several places where any horizontal movement of the setup would create lost of metal/rock drag. Also, the biner on the right should be reversed so the gate is facing out. Horizontal movement probably wouldn't be enough to unscrew the gate (or is this an autolock?-either way...), but it could drag it across the rock and it's always good to have them facing out (keeps them cleaner as well).

The Heaps accident was 5 years ago (2007) and I think it has a major relevance to this discussion.

It sounded to me that he was referring to your Heaps descent (which I don't know much about).

Either way, it seems that this discussion gives one a headache reading through it all.

[Slot Machine]

Rich,

I hope you stick around for a sec. It appears that *most* of the people on this thread think the Jester is not the best way to rig a contingency. I would like to hear your opinion on the matter. (I assume you invented the Jester)

What advantage does the Jester have over a Munter/Mule? Do you think it is more or less likely to be properly set than the Munter/Mule?

Bob

[Deathcricket]

Forgive me if I spoil anyone's fun by providing accurate information ...

https://www.facebook.com/AmericanCan...ingAssociation

Feel free to copy any of the Jester rigging photos from the Facebook page and paste them here to continue your discussion.

Carry on.

LOL what a goldmine of misinfo this place is, who is this guy? Is he the teacher that originally devised this method? I'm really enjoying reading this garbage.

I have no idea why the purple webbing and brown carabiner are in the system. The brown carabiner appears to be clipped around the yellow rope between it and the Totem. This is incorrect and may have contributed to the slippage.

Pretty obvious it's just a safety clip so he can mess with it and not fall. But somehow having an independent webbing and extra biner makes this system fail? LOL part 1!

Received this photo in an email this morning. It was posted on a forum somewhere with a story about the rope slipping through. I'm not surprised. This was supposedly rigged in Jester mode, but I have never seen it so poorly rigged. Keep in mind the Jester works because it provides friction at three points, similar to the Joker.

I have seen rope slip a few inches when using new 8mm rope with a heavy person on rappel on only two occasions. Even though slippage is extremely rare when rigged correctly, with ropes under 9mm -- if you are setting up the Jester for a single-rope contingency -- tie a mule and overhand or a couple half hitches through the round hole with the brake strand of rope.

I think this is unnecessarily harsh and kinda douchey, I am hard pressed to see the ANY difference between the 2 setups....



Yet somehow he has never seen one so poorly rigged? Assuming the one he posted is the correct way, and assuming the one in the accident is the worst one he's every seen. It becomes very obvious to me that this system is just too complicated to use. So either this guy is greatly exaggerating just to be mean to @ag23 and discredit him, or this entire system is garbage.

I just learned where this was posted. Bogley. I can tell you what is transpiring on that forum without even looking. A handful of self-anointed experts who have never even seen the Jester, let alone actually learned how to use it properly, are offering their critiques. LOL Some things will never change.

Ha! LOL #3 in one thread, this place is comedy gold.

http://www.canyoneering.net/forums/s...8978#post28978

SECOND PHOTO -- BOTH STRANDS FIXED

Friction is provided in three places; (1) rope in left slot, (2) rope through rappel ring, and (3) rope in right slot. With this much friction, the rope is fixed allowing each strand to be loaded independently. Like the Joker. Someone rapping on left strand while another person rigs on the right strand. Etc.

If you need to lower someone to the ground (contingency rigging), remove the opposite bight of rope from the black carabiner.

Illustrating what I meant about tying off the brake strand with a mule and overhand or two half hitches. Used two half hitches in the photo. If you are using the Jester as a double rope contingency this is obviously not necessary. If you are using the Jester to creep the rope this is obviously not necessary.

It is not really necessary with the 9.2mm rope in the photo, but it only takes a few more seconds, so why not.

So use two half hitches to secure it or the ropes are fixed? Maybe it depends on this guy's mood. Or maybe it's a convenient retraction now that someone almost died.

[BW123]

__

[ag23]

Original:


A few points of confusion (I guess I'd have to see it in person):

1. I'm still a bit confused about the purple sling in the first photo. It can't be used as a tagline and it isn't a backup anchor. Are people tying off to this at the top of the rappel?

2. I'm also slightly confused about the second upper biner (the one on the left) in the first photo; the rope goes through the biner and the RQ/L. Is this by design?

3. Seems like the system would work better in the second photo (Rich's) because it is clear of the rock. The one in the first photo it seems that there are several places where any horizontal movement of the setup would create lost of metal/rock drag. Also, the biner on the right should be reversed so the gate is facing out. Horizontal movement probably wouldn't be enough to unscrew the gate (or is this an autolock?-either way...), but it could drag it across the rock and it's always good to have them facing out (keeps them cleaner as well).



It sounded to me that he was referring to your Heaps descent (which I don't know much about).

Either way, it seems that this discussion gives one a headache reading through it all.

The purple is my safety tether and biner, so not relevant to the discussion. (I obviously wasn't NOT going to rappel) Sorry for the confusion, I should have included a description with it.

This was not a perfect rigging, but not in any way that contributed to the accident. You can watch my video where I have a rigging failing with just a slight tug.

And for the record, that "Brake" step was not part of the class I took. Here a picture of how Rich rigged it at that class - No Munter!


-Andre

[Brian in SLC]

1. I'm still a bit confused about the purple sling in the first photo. It can't be used as a tagline and it isn't a backup anchor.
3.Also, the biner on the right should be reversed so the gate is facing out. Horizontal movement probably wouldn't be enough to unscrew the gate (or is this an autolock?-either way...), but it could drag it across the rock and it's always good to have them facing out (keeps them cleaner as well).

I think 1) is a tether.

3): great point. Since contingencies are rigged for, uhh, contingencies, if that locking carabiner's gate can't be opened because the screwgate mechanism is either jammed from debris from rubbing, or, screwed tightly due to rubbing against the rock, one might be a touch in a pickle if you needed to undo and go help. That, or you just left a spendy addition to the anchor...

Fun thread!

[Brian in SLC]

And for the record, that "Brake" step was not part of the class I took. Here a picture of how Rich rigged it at that class - No Munter!

Hey, is that Stoney Point?

[ag23]

Forgive me if I spoil anyone's fun by providing accurate information ...

https://www.facebook.com/AmericanCan...ingAssociation

Feel free to copy any of the Jester rigging photos from the Facebook page and paste them here to continue your discussion.

Carry on.

Hi Rich,
I appreciate you weighting in on this. I gather from your facebook posting you have some issues with my rigging. Please note the purple webbing is my tether, and obviously I wasn't going to rappel. The direction of gate, a cross loaded rapide, what would have happened if a bolt failed, have all been brought up too. I'm the first to admit that the rigging wasn't perfect, but nothing about it contributed to the accident.


I posted a video here from my back ally show how easily the rope pulled through the jester with only a moderate tug, essentially failing with only a couple hundred pounds of force. Have you had a chance to look at that?




Secondly, you posted a picture labeled "Brake" with the munter hitch - I don't recall that being part of the Totem course, appearing in those pictures, or being anywhere on the canyoneering forums. I certainly didn't use it following weekend when I ran Bailey Canyon with one of the guys helping you with the class, and we rigged multiple jesters that day.

Here's a picture from the class.




http://www.meetup.com/ACA-Canyoneeri...0792/84780202/

Can you confirm this is a new configuration since the class?

-Andre

[ag23]

Hey, is that Stoney Point?

It was Stoney Point - where you there for that class?


-Andre

[Brian in SLC]

It was Stoney Point - where you there for that class?

No, but I've climbed there. Thought I recognized the boulder in the background...

[trackrunner]

I posted a video here from my back ally show how easily the rope pulled through the jester with only a moderate tug, essentially failing with only a couple hundred pounds of force. Have you had a chance to look at that?

note I've never used the jester & not pretending or claiming to be an expert. I do know you can release & lower using a bd atc-guide using leverage to lift the device to reduce friction with the rope. in your video the jester looks like it starts out with leverage. it appears to catch once the leverage lifting the device up and threading rope through stops. is this how it works & or problem?

[ag23]

note I've never used the jester & not pretending or claiming to be an expert. I do know you can release & lower using a bd atc-guide using leverage to lift the device to reduce friction with the rope. in your video the jester looks like it starts out with leverage. it appears to catch once the leverage lifting the device up and threading rope through stops. is this how it works & or problem?

Nope, that rope isn't suppose to move at all. And it doesn't catch me - I just reach the ground.

-Andre

[bjp]

I don't see how you can look at this and NOT be scared. There is no mechanism that 'locks' it.

I think you can see that with a small rope, it would not lock at all. Say, 6mm pull cord. But with a big fat rope it would lock for sure - say, 12mm. So somewhere between, there is a point where it would slip under some load. Where is that point? What is the "some load"?

I don't know where that point is. What I do know is that that point is in there somewhere, and I do not like systems like that.

Tom, I'm not sure I understand. Certainly you are correct that this system is like two stacked rappel devices with some extra friction in between, but you do not like systems that release under some load (which is less than the breaking strength of the equipment)? What about the sand trap? I suppose you don't like the water trap now, but what if that accident hadn't happened?

Would you recommend against other friction-only riggings like the Joker (same idea as Jester, but two figure 8's are used as the friction devices instead of two sticht plates)? What about a figure 8 block? It doesn't have any knot-like characteristics that apply the weighting tension to another strand to "lock" them in place either, so it is a friction-only rigging as well. I'll have to admit that I'm not scared when I look at a figure 8 block, but perhaps I've been overlooking something important. I definitely see that there is a distinction between "locking" riggings where increasing tension increases holding force by more than the tension increase, and "non-locking" riggings that will slip eventually and it's only a matter of how much force needs to be applied.

[ratagonia]

The purple is my safety tether and biner, so not relevant to the discussion. (...)


-Andre

I think you will find, Andre, that it is a good idea to not put your safety leash into the rapid link where the rope goes. If your leash biner does not fit in the chain, toss a sling into one of the links and clip into that. Clipping around the chain (like the brown biner in the picture), aka the "Minnesota Clip", as has been pointed out, is not a good idea.

I disagree that the rigging shown did not contribute to the accident. The differences between Rich's configuration and your configuration are small, but they are significant. You have crap in the way that does not let the rope align tightly against the body of the Totem. This changes the friction generated; and may have contributed significantly to the accident.

Personally, for me the system is too sensitive to small changes. You made some small changes. Hard to say how those small changes effect the system friction without some specific testing.

Tom

[Brian in SLC]

What about a figure 8 block? It doesn't have any knot-like characteristics that apply the weighting tension to another strand to "lock" them in place either, so it is a friction-only rigging as well. I'll have to admit that I'm not scared when I look at a figure 8 block, but perhaps I've been overlooking something important.

The figure eight, as far as I know it, its pretty "locked off" when you twist and put a sort of half hitch into it to secure the loop. And, I have always seen folks then clip that off as well, securing it for all but the last person.

Who has a good photo of a locked off figure eight, or, the current Stefan Hofmann riggin' of it? Post up!

Thanks.

[ratagonia]

Tom, I'm not sure I understand. Certainly you are correct that this system is like two stacked rappel devices with some extra friction in between, but you do not like systems that release under some load (which is less than the breaking strength of the equipment)? What about the sand trap? I suppose you don't like the water trap now, but what if that accident hadn't happened?

Would you recommend against other friction-only riggings like the Joker (same idea as Jester, but two figure 8's are used as the friction devices instead of two sticht plates)? What about a figure 8 block? It doesn't have any knot-like characteristics that apply the weighting tension to another strand to "lock" them in place either, so it is a friction-only rigging as well. I'll have to admit that I'm not scared when I look at a figure 8 block, but perhaps I've been overlooking something important. I definitely see that there is a distinction between "locking" riggings where increasing tension increases holding force by more than the tension increase, and "non-locking" riggings that will slip eventually and it's only a matter of how much force needs to be applied.

You're talking apples and pomegranates.

Sandtrap:

We have some fancy anchor devices for use when other anchors are not available and/or terribly inconvenient. When we use the Sandtrap, (usually) only the last person rappels on it without a solid meat-anchor backup, and only after it has been thoroughly tested using a rappeller who is heavier and rougher than the final person will be. And the final person is not likely to be a beginner, and is unlikely to over-body-weight load the anchor.

As a product (and as a technique), the Sandtrap is released as a specialized tool for special circumstances, that requires considerable judgment to use, judgment best developed by using it with people that have already learned how to use it. Most of the sales of SandTraps have been to people who had previously used them in the field, and had already been trained (most, not all).

You might notice that the water trap has not been "released". It is not yet in a releasable state. Still working on it, slowly.

Joker/Jester:

This is a technique that people are trained to, using a specific piece of gear (Totem). Certainly Andre thought he could just go out and use it, with whatever ropes, and with a bunch of beginners. I think Scott has more or less said the same thing - he uses it frequently with beginners, and without a special concern about small/slippery ropes.

The Figure-8 blocks I have seen have an extra loop of rope that acts as a lock. It is not just friction partly because there is rope-across-rope interaction that tends to lock with more force.

To me, the other difference is that the Jester method is offered in a place where many other riggings could be used. Does this have advantages over other methods? Yeah, I can see that it would be great to have a system that sets up quickly, allows both strands to be used independently back and forth, AND provides contingency setup on each of those strands. That would be a nice system, if it worked.

Tom

[bjp]

What advantage does the Jester have over a Munter/Mule? Do you think it is more or less likely to be properly set than the Munter/Mule?

The Jester and Joker are releasable versions of the Stone knot -- all three isolate both strands allowing people to rappel on either strand while the Munter/Mule does not. The reason one might want the option to rappel on both strands is to have someone rappelling at all times in a big group; the next person rigs while the previous person is on rappel. This is extremely useful in certain circumstances, like taking a group of 12 through Little Santa Anita with 10-12 small rappels.

I can only speak from personal experience, but I find it much easier to rig, teach others to rig, and check the Joker than a Munter/Mule. Like the Joker, the Jester essentially has just 3 simple steps -- clip Totem to anchor, push rope into sticht slots, clip carabiner through bights. The Munter/Mule has 4 steps and more details to get right -- clip quickdraw to anchor, tie Munter with rappel strand to lower carabiner, tie a slip knot with a bight from between the lower carabiner and quickdraw, tie an overhand with bight.

What's interesting to note, is, how the contingency is rigged. Easy, fast, simple.

East, fast, simple, and doesn't accomplish what the Jester does.

For me.... thread the rope through the quick-link and done.... nothing faster, nothing simplier.

Everything else is just inviting an accident.

And, y'know, not drowning in an Italian rendezvous.

I'm just putting a just little slack in the line (as if leaning forward to unclip a tether) and then kind of leaning back hard. I can easily pull a foot or more through the rigging. Not exactly a scientific test, but this is failing with only a couple hundred pounds of force.

I should note again this is an almost brand new rope and is very slick. I can't make it fail on my older canyon fires that have a few seasons of use, but then I haven't tried especially hard.

This is the important piece of information ag23 has graciously provided from his experience and follow-up testing: don't use a Jester with thin rope, especially if it's new. I'd be interested in how much force it takes to slip various rope types in the Jester. I'd do the experiment but I don't have a Totem.