The Subway / July 3rd

[seb42]

Our group of seven (7) headed down The Subway on Tuesday, July 3rd. We were excited for the return for those of us where this was a staple trip each time we come out from the East Coast. For those first-timers, it was great watching them enjoy each new around-the-corner site and work with us down each Subway obstacle. The water levels seems just a touch higher that what we had experienced in June '10. We took the opportunity to use the new anchor point on the first boulder obstacle, which went perfectly fine.

As we anxiously arrived at the Bowling Ball Corridor we surveyed the new log jam at the lone bowling ball. As the first one down we saw it would be an easy squeeze through on the left side...



Our group made good, efficient work of the remaining obstacles and enjoyed some time in the potholes and shower room past the last rappel. Unfortunately, this is the spot I believe I lost my black Polarized Oakley Gascans...I went back for a peek in the potholes, etc...but no luck.

The march out was as expected...HOT and tedious, but we took the last dip in the Left Fork of the North Creek prior to ascending out of the canyon. We completed the trip in about 7.5 hrs. Great fun and memories for all!

[jman]

Looks like a fun trip! 7 hrs is a good time to make it through, especially with a few noobs. Good job!

[2065toyota]

[Sandstone Addiction]

Great TR!

Would a 5 year old be able to do the Subway from the top down, I'm mainly concerned with the distance involved?

[ratagonia]

Great TR!

Would a 5 year old be able to do the Subway from the top down, I'm mainly concerned with the distance involved?

In a word - "no".

It is only 8.6 miles, but it is almost all rugged terrain. OK, first 2.5 miles is pretty mild, but... the rest is tough terrain.

I guess I assume, Addiction, that you have not done it, or at least not recently. No. It is a long way. Technical difficulties few. Hiking difficulties, substantial.


Tom

[Scott P]

Would a 5 year old be able to do the Subway from the top down, I'm mainly concerned with the distance involved?

It depends. My son was doing 15 mile days by then and I wouldn't hesitate taking him through something like the Subway. My daughter was doing 11 mile days by then and I wouldn't hesitate taking her either. Note that I haven't taken them though this particular one, but we did many routes both longer and more difficult than the Subway at those ages.

When our daughter was 3-4 and our son was 5-6:

http://www.summitpost.org/2008-trip-log/375607

When our daughter was 4-5 and our son was 6-7:

http://www.summitpost.org/2009-trip-log/477971

Ages 5-6 and 7-8:

http://www.summitpost.org/2010-trip-log/590857

So yes, a five year old can do trip with similar difficulty than the Subway. A five year old would have to be conditioned though. If they are used to walking several miles a week over rugged terrain, it should be fairly easy. If they are used to sitting around playing video games, it's probably going to be pretty tough. I would suggest doing the route first yourself though.

[ratagonia]

It depends. My son was doing 15 mile days by then and I wouldn't hesitate taking him through something like the Subway. My daughter was doing 11 mile days by then and I wouldn't hesitate taking her either. Note that I haven't taken them though this particular one, but we did many routes both longer and more difficult than the Subway at those ages.

I hope, and am pretty sure, that Scott appreciates that his son and daughter represent the 0.01% of kids for hiking, canyoneering and mountaineering.

Scott's experience with his kids does not apply to any other kids I have ever met, with perhaps the exception of Aaron Ramras, who is now an adult, dragging his pops up hard routes in the North Cascades.

Your Mileage WILL Vary.

Tom

[Sandstone Addiction]

I appreciate the feedback.

Scott, your kids are amazing and an inspiration to mine, but my boys are definitly not on the same level (least not yet).

Sounds like a good excuse to leave the boys with their cousins for the weekend and mom and dad go play. Now if I could just get a permit...

[Scott P]

.........

[Scott P]

Scott, your kids are amazing and an inspiration tomine, but my boys are definitly not on the same level (least not yet).

I still think with practice, it would be reasonable to take some well prepared/conditioned kids in there (we met a couple doing it with a five yearold the first time we went through). Anyway, rather than think about age, I would think about it in equivalence to other hikes.

Since you live in the SLC area, if it’s the length that is the main concern, I think Mt Olympus would be a pretty good comparison to physical difficulty. The hikes are completely different as are the technical obstacles, but in physical effort they are probably quite similar.

Regardless of age, it would probably be fair to say that if a kid can complete Mt Olympus without it being a struggle, he/she is probably ready physically to try something like the Subway assuming the other skill criteria is met as well. The elevation gain is much greater on Olympus, but the miles are a bit less and there are swims and of course rappels, so in a physical sense they are somewhat equal.

There is a difference in commitment in that if you try Mt Olympus, you can turn back and any time. If you try the Subway and run out of gas somewhere in the Subway, you still have to complete the hike and thus could get in trouble easier.

Regardless of age, it would seem that a reasonable minimum qualification might be that the kid has to be able to climb something like Mt Olympus without a struggle, be comfortable with some rope work and with swimming (personally, I’d always recommend a life jacket).

Something like that would probably be much more useful than trying to come up with a minimum age to try it. Then you have to realize that the Subway from the top is a one way route and unlike climbing a mountain, once you reach a certain point, you really can’t reasonably turn back after reaching that point and it's better to complete the entire route.

[Iceaxe]

I just checked my records to see when we first did a family Subway from the top. The kids were 6 (Sierra) and 8 (Stormy) years old.

Speaking as a parent it just depends on the particular kid. If this is something they really want to do and are excited about it will work out great. If this is something they consider a form of torture you can ruin the kids wanting to hike with you for the next 10 or 20 years. If it's not fun for the kid they will not want to do it again.



A couple of things I remember about the trip that might be helpful for those doing it with young kids. I had done the Das Boot/Subway route two weeks before so I was very familiar with the route. This really helps when doing the boulder hop in the lower canyon (no false trails). We did it on a very hot July day without wet suits and my youngest kept getting cold, I would carry her over some water to stop her from getting wet and we had a fleece jacket we could put on her to warm her up. I had the kids in harnesses so they were easy to lower down any obstacle. We stopped at a swimming hole near the finish and rested and let the kids swim until the hike up the lava slope was in the shade.

[ratagonia]

I just checked my records to see when we first did a family Subway from the top. The kids were 6 (Sierra) and 8 (Stormy) years old.

Speaking as a parent it just depends on the particular kid. If this is something they really want to do and are excited about it will work out great. If this is something they consider a form of torture you can ruin the kids wanting to hike with you for the next 10 or 20 years. If it's not fun for the kid they will not want to do it again.

A couple of things I remember about the trip that might be helpful for those doing it with young kids. I had done the Das Boot/Subway route two weeks before so I was very familiar with the route. This really helps when doing the boulder hop in the lower canyon (no false trails). We did it on a very hot July day without wet suits and my youngest kept getting cold, I would carry her over some water to stop her from getting wet and we had a fleece jacket we could put on her to warm her up. I had the kids in harnesses so they were easy to lower down any obstacle. We stopped at a swimming hole near the finish and rested and let the kids swim until the hike up the lava slope was in the shade.

thanks Shane.

That was probably pre-digital age - but do you remember how long it took?

Having worked with kids as a guide, it is the LENGTH of the journey that mostly concerns me. For kids, that is a loooong day. Now, there are ways to manage that, for instance, a long lunch break with nap before starting the hike out (works for me, too); plenty of food; making sure ahead of time that they realize how long the trip is; and as Shane said making sure they really want to do it, so it is a challenge they willingly take on.

The braid of trails in the lower half was somewhat congealed by backcountry staff last winter. In April, I found the hike out to be 1/2 hour faster and overall significantly easier, than in years past.

Tom

[Iceaxe]

That was probably pre-digital age - but do you remember how long it took?

First time stamp I have is 10:23, the picture was taken on the slickrock at the top of Russell Gulch (Just after you leave the trail and see the warning sign about permit required).

Last time stamp is 6:05 and was taken at the dinosaur tracks. The dino track picture was taken after our swim break where we spent at least one hour waiting for the shade to hit the exit.

[Deathcricket]

Nice TR dude! I especially enjoyed seeing the new bowling ball obstacle with log. Looks like I will have to get in there and check it out this year. Very cool.

I am however, going to have to give you 1 "party foul" for not posting the Subway section of the Subway. No TR of the Subway is complete without a pic of the subway section of the Subway in subway like conditions of the Subway.

[seb42]

Thx! Yea...I'll take the "party foul". My point and shoot died that trip and all I had was the GoPro working on grabbing the video. I did, however, get my buddies Subway section shots...hope this takes away half the penalty :)






Thought I would throw this one in too. Cool shot prior to dropping in!

[Deathcricket]

Ahhh, there we go! Nice one man. I'm guilty of the same thing actually. Seems like my GoPro is either filled up the rim with video or batteries dead, hehe.

[Felicia]

thanks Shane.

That was probably pre-digital age - but do you remember how long it took?

Tom

We met at 8:00AM at the Left Fork parking lot, entered the first section of slickrock at 9:05AM and returned back to the Left Fork parking lot at 7:00PM. These kids were, and still are, incredible hikers!

[Byron]

Nice TR...nuthin' but fun, eh? Now I'm all jacked up to hop in the truck and cruise out there!