No fires in Uintas, This includes camp stoves. Seriously???

[keithd]

Funny as I also know a guy involved in Forest Fires in Utah and he said that it makes a big difference when people are being as responsible as possible in if they go after someone or not.

Did I say responsibility didn't play a role in the decision to prosecute? I don't think so. I said that people get prosecuted even when they accidentally start a forest fire. Most prosecutions come from accidental forest fires that are started from a campfire during a fire restriction. In that case, no matter how responsible the fire is, it's still illegal.

He sued the boy scouts a few years ago for exactly that: a group built a camp fire during a fire ban that sparked a forest fire.

I don't know if there are fines or if they get sued for fire fighting and recovery expenses.

[Scott P]

Are they going to ban cigarette smoking too?

Yes, unless you are in a vehicle, building, cleared area or developed area. See #2 in the below link (also above):

http://www.utahfireinfo.gov/fire_res...ctions2012.pdf

[stefan]

What's the fine?

they should probably make it 50-100K or maybe higher.

[JONBOYLEMON]

Did I say responsibility didn't play a role in the decision to prosecute? I don't think so. I said that people get prosecuted even when they accidentally start a forest fire. Most prosecutions come from accidental forest fires that are started from a campfire during a fire restriction. In that case, no matter how responsible the fire is, it's still illegal.

He sued the boy scouts a few years ago for exactly that: a group built a camp fire during a fire ban that sparked a forest fire.

I don't know if there are fines or if they get sued for fire fighting and recovery expenses.

Sorry if you took my line as an argument. I was just saying it was funny that both of us know a fire prosecutor dude. He is a pretty nice guy and the kind of guy who should be in that position as hes is very reasonable and level headed.

[reverse_dyno]

Whats the difference if a thunderstorm sparks a fire or a person accidentally sparks one? The difference is that the government doesn't have the power to sue God, it would if it could. It is a joke to go after people that accidentally start a forest fire. It is the public's land! And the public will accidentally burn it. Why not go after home owners for the cost of putting their house fire out. They have a larger lobby than us outdoor people have, that's why.

There is absolutely no reason to have a state wide ban on camp fires. Have any of you ever heard of a salt fire breaking out in the middle of the Bonneville salt flats? In many places in the San Rafael Swell there isn't enough flammable material to burn. Its all sand.

I have lived in fire prone states before, and they never institute state wide bands on camp fires. It is always area specific. This state wide ban just shows how little the state government cares about outdoorsmen and women.

[keithd]

Sorry if you took my line as an argument. I was just saying it was funny that both of us know a fire prosecutor dude. He is a pretty nice guy and the kind of guy who should be in that position as hes is very reasonable and level headed.

Yeah, that is funny! I don't always agree with the laws, but it certainly scares me enough not to want to build a fire.

[dmMatrix]

So I have a quick question for you guys, and seriously, I just need clarification to make sure:

Section 1 in the ban says: Setting, building, maintaining, attending or using open fires of any kind, except campfires built within the facilities provided for them in improved campgrounds, picnic areas or permanently improved places of habitation.

So, I can still have a fire at... lets say Butterfly Lake campground because its improved right? so realistically everyone is making this out to be more than it is? I could be mis-interpreting this though. I also heard that mini backpacking burners could still be used. Could someone elaborate?

[Scott P]

double post

[Scott P]

Whats the difference if a thunderstorm sparks a fire or a person accidentally sparks one? The difference is that the government doesn't have the power to sue God, it would if it could. It is a joke to go after people that accidentally start a forest fire. It is the public's land! And the public will accidentally burn it. Why not go after home owners for the cost of putting their house fire out. They have a larger lobby than us outdoor people have, that's why.

There is absolutely no reason to have a state wide ban on camp fires. Have any of you ever heard of a salt fire breaking out in the middle of the Bonneville salt flats? In many places in the San Rafael Swell there isn't enough flammable material to burn. Its all sand.

I have lived in fire prone states before, and they never institute state wide bands on camp fires. It is always area specific. This state wide ban just shows how little the state government cares about outdoorsmen and women.

What’s the difference if a (rock fall causes a traffic accident) or a person accidentally causes one? The difference is that the government doesn't have thepower to sue God, it would if it could. It is a joke to go after people that accidentally (cause a car accident). It is the public's road! And the public will (cause accidents). Why not go after home owners for the cost of putting their house fire out. They have a larger lobby than us outdoor people have, that's why.

There is absolutely no reason to have state (traffic laws). Have any of you ever heard of a (traffic accident) out in the middle of the Bonneville saltflats? In many places in the San Rafael Swell (aren’t any roads to have accidents on). Its all sand.

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PS, please explain your reasoning to the family of the family of the person whom was just killed in the Colorado wildfire. Plus all the firemen/women whom have died recently fighting them (personally I had a friends killed doing this). It's true that it is part of their job, but it doesn't mean that people shouldn't be held responsible for causing a fire.

[Deadeye008]

So I have a quick question for you guys, and seriously, I just need clarification to make sure:

Section 1 in the ban says: Setting, building, maintaining, attending or using open fires of any kind, except campfires built within the facilities provided for them in improved campgrounds, picnic areas or permanently improved places of habitation.

So, I can still have a fire at... lets say Butterfly Lake campground because its improved right? so realistically everyone is making this out to be more than it is? I could be mis-interpreting this though. I also heard that mini backpacking burners could still be used. Could someone elaborate?

Yes, you can have a campfire in an improved campground with a fire ring/pit. You can also use a backpacking stove or any other type of stove/flame that uses petroleum based fuel. People on here are making a big deal about it because most of us do not like to camp in improved campgrounds and we like to have a fire in the backcountry.

[dmMatrix]

Yes, you can have a campfire in an improved campground with a fire ring/pit. You can also use a backpacking stove or any other type of stove/flame that uses petroleum based fuel. People on here are making a big deal about it because most of us do not like to camp in improved campgrounds and we like to have a fire in the backcountry.

Thanks for the clarification on that. I too like to hike in with virtually no food and cook everything I catch for a few days... which is going to suck for now.

It just seemed that a couple individuals were making it sound like the mention of fire at all was going to send you to jail ha ha.

If we get some good rain around the end of the month do you think they will lift the restriction?

[JONBOYLEMON]

I suspect they will just leave it in place all year. If they were concerned about implimenting it like a smart guy would, they would have excluded certain areas for now, but it was easy to just ban the entire state.

But yeah, as you sit through a hail storm in the Uintahs you kinda get the feeling that lightning would be a bigger threat than your little campfire ever would be......

The bummer is I have canceled plans now for Pine Island Lake until they lift the ban as I want to cook a big fat Brookie on some coals after a great day of fishing!

[Scott P]

The bummer is I have canceled plans now for Pine Island Lake until they lift the ban as I want to cook a big fat Brookie on some coals after a great day of fishing!

FYI, campfires are never legal at Pine Island Lake and haven't been for over 7+ years now. It's probably not what you want to hear, but don't shoot the messenger.

Map where fires are always banned (all areas marking in pink which are closer than 0.25 miles to a lake-in which most areas in pink it's hard to even get that far from any lake):

[middlefork]

Here is a good link if you are interested in why these restrictions are in place or are intrested in wild land fire at all.

http://www.nifc.gov/nicc/index.htm

And so far in Utah ther have been 84 human caused fires for 10280 acres and 12 lightning caused fires for 3731 acres. Plain to see where the problems come from.

And I can't find the link but I'm pretty sure Scott P is correct on the Grandaddy Basin.

[JONBOYLEMON]

1/4 mile from a lake you can have a camp fire @ Pine Island?

I am a bit confused. I am pretty sure I could find a spot 1/4 from the lake to camp. Or am I reading this wrong?


Also, on the stats listed above, I wonder what % of each fire, "Human vs lightning" includes brush fires on Lake Mountain. I suspect cheat grass would be responsible for alot of acres burned up.

[Scott P]

1/4 mile from a lake you can have a camp fire @ Pine Island?

I am a bit confused. I am pretty sure I could find a spot 1/4 from the lake to camp. Or am I reading this wrong?

You are reading it right, but getting more than 1/4 of a mile from a lake around Pine Island is harder than it sounds, though possible (it's not just the named lakes, but any lake over 1 acre). The area to the west of Pine Island is a steep ridge and then a drop into the canyon. The best bet would probably try to find somewhere in the middle of the area between Pine Island, Governer Dern, Pinto and Margo Lakes, though it could be pretty rocky

[JONBOYLEMON]

A rocky place big enough for a small fire is all I need! Certainly there are established fire pits up there 1/4 mile from a lake. There used to be.

[middlefork]

Also, on the stats listed above, I wonder what % of each fire, "Human vs lightning" includes brush fires on Lake Mountain. I suspect cheat grass would be responsible for alot of acres burned up.

Here is a list by agency. My guess is Lake Mountain is either BLM or ST.
http://www.utahfireinfo.gov/fire_inf...ytd_fires.html

USFS is interesting too.

[dmMatrix]

I wonder if the random fire places next to random picnic tables count as "established".... Maybe Ill pack up an entire picnic table and a bag of cement and see if someone gets pissed

[Caddis]

A couple of years ago, we went up into the Granddaddy basin and were stopped by a ranger. He said that one of the main reasons for keeping people from camping within a 1/4 of a mile from any lake is that the people have stripped the trees of all their lower limbs up to 10 to 12 feet above the ground.