Kolob this weekend

[ratagonia]

We've been over this before.

The citing ranger has a fair amount of discretion, but CAN give you and EACH member of the party up to $500.00 fine.

If you contest the citation, the magistrate can inflict greater harm. I had heard up to $ 1000.00 fine and 90 days in jail.

One way to get the maximum fine is to LIE to the ranger. They really don't like that.

Just get the permit, it's not that hard.

There are also societal ramifications of failing to comply. Our standing to negotiate terms with the Park, limited as it is, is contingent on the canyoneering community complying with the permit system, no matter how inconvenient.

So, please don't.

Tom

[Byron]

Yeah, Tom...I can dig it. 5 benjies would certainly be a deterrent. Personally, the only place I've "not paid" is way out in the backcountry of the North Rim, when timing or distance to get "official" is a super pain in the ass. You can waste a whole day and a tank of gas just to give them $30. That's certainly not the case in Zion, but doing the permit "shuffle" does eat up into some precious time...

I can't tell you how many "illegal" backpackers I've run into. You can always tell, they are nervous and sleep in the bushes. I would imagine everyday in Zion people are "going for it" despite the quota. They drove all the way out there and won't be stopped, ya know? I just wonder if they ever park a ranger at the last rappel at Pine Creek or the parking lot at the end of Left fork to check "papers", handing out tickets for non compliance. I've been there dozens of times and never been asked. Oh well, probably shouldn't talk about it at all...like Scott implied. "Let a sleeping dog lie".

[ratagonia]

Yeah, Tom...I can dig it. 5 benjies would certainly be a deterrent. Personally, the only place I've "not paid" is way out in the backcountry of the North Rim, when timing or distance to get "official" is a super pain in the ass. You can waste a whole day and a tank of gas just to give them $30. That's certainly not the case in Zion, but doing the permit "shuffle" does eat up into some precious time...

I can't tell you how many "illegal" backpackers I've run into. You can always tell, they are nervous and sleep in the bushes. I would imagine everyday in Zion people are "going for it" despite the quota. They drove all the way out there and won't be stopped, ya know? I just wonder if they ever park a ranger at the last rappel at Pine Creek or the parking lot at the end of Left fork to check "papers", handing out tickets for non compliance. I've been there dozens of times and never been asked. Oh well, probably shouldn't talk about it at all...like Scott implied. "Let a sleeping dog lie".

They certainly post rangers at the end of the Subway on a regular basis. Scott is friends with them. Last year they had a considerable effort to catch some pirate guides.

Tom

[Byron]

"Guides?" Now that takes balls! Or lack of brains...there's a $500 slap upside the head for ya...that's just reckless.

[ratagonia]

"Guides?" Now that takes balls! Or lack of brains...there's a $500 slap upside the head for ya...that's just reckless.

Not really. They caught one guy (at least), and slapped his wrist. Kinda pitiful, really, considering how much it costs us (ZAC) to guide legitimately on BLM land (ie, a LOT).

Tom