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Thread: Inferno

  1. #1
    Bogley BigShot oldno7's Avatar
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    Inferno

    This, to me, is the cream of the Dante's Crop.(followed closely by Paradiso)

    A bit of most everything.
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  4. #2
    Content Provider Emeritus ratagonia's Avatar
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    You're welcome.

    Tom
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  5. #3
    Thanks Tom!

    Nice canyons. Was there last week. Where did all the webbing come from in these natural and pristine canyons? It looked like it had been there a long time. I cut it all out. You're welcome.

    Rob

  6. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by PG Rob View Post
    Where did all the webbing come from in these natural and pristine canyons?
    and the rope grooves?

    the A-team is doing C+ work.

  7. #5
    Didn't see rope grooves. I wasn't casting blame... Just curious.

  8. #6
    Great photos, but what I really need to know is what length are the raps, how many pot shots should I bring, and how many sheets of toilet paper do I need to complete this trip?

    Ken

  9. #7
    Nice! Looks like a fun canyon. Thanks for sharing.
    I have decided to stick with love. Hate is too great a burden to bear. -Martin Luther King, Jr.





  10. #8
    Mountain Man ilipichicuma's Avatar
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    Great, those pictures are making me want to go back when I swore I never would. All of that stemming was not fun for this big fat guy. Sweet pictures!
    --Cliff

  11. #9
    Content Provider Emeritus ratagonia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PG Rob View Post
    Nice canyons. Was there last week. Where did all the webbing come from in these natural and pristine canyons?

    It looked like it had been there a long time. I cut it all out. You're welcome.

    Rob
    I have not been out there in a long time, so it is hard for me to answer your question, or anyone for that matter. Each piece of crap tends to have its own story, and it only takes one marginally competent party to muck things up pretty good.

    Not sure exactly what your question is, perhaps it is more of a comment: "Sure seems a lot of crap webbing was in there, for canyons that are supposed to be so natural and pristine".

    Tom
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  12. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by ratagonia
    I have not been out there in a long time, so it is hard for me to answer your question, or anyone for that matter. Each piece of crap tends to have its own story, and it only takes one marginally competent party to muck things up pretty good.

    Not sure exactly what your question is, perhaps it is more of a comment: "Sure seems a lot of crap webbing was in there, for canyons that are supposed to be so natural and pristine".

    Tom
    Sorry Tom... The only part of my post directed at you was a sincere Thanks. The canyons truly were in terrific shape... very well cared for... Again, thanks to you and anyone who has descended these and left them with very little evidence of your passing.

    My question to anyone was if they knew the reasons or story of the webbing in there. Like I said, it looked like it had been there for some time. I went in expecting to have to use alternative techniques, and was surprised to find webbing. I am not exactly sure why I expected that, or why I was surprised. I had supposed that from prior threads. After going back and looking at the threads, I can see that it was a misunderstanding on my part.

    Quote Originally Posted by RAM on Yahoo Canyons Group
    The canyons remain remarkably pristine after perhaps 1000 total person-descents. Please avoid trampling the crytobiotic soil. Stay in washes and on slickrock. No bolts are necessary, though some anchors are moderately tricky. Many drops are short and succumb to meat anchoring and last man capture techniques. Please extend your black, olive, tan or grey webbing where
    necessary, so no rope grooves form. Be prepared to rig every anchor as the the anchors wash out regularly. Please leave the canyons as clean as possible. Be careful and enjoy!
    I appreciate this plea from RAM. I take it seriously, and hope others will too.

    Rob

  13. #11
    When we were there in March there were some anchors that had webbing, but it didnt seem excessive. We didnt do Paradiso, but we decended Purg, Limbo and Inferno. At several drops there were rope grooves beginning to form, one of which was a horn that is almost sawed off from people pulling off of it. We have pictures somewhere I believe. But overall, the canyons were in very good shape compared to the normal trade routes. Although I guess I didnt go in expecting a ghost method only canyon either, that would certainly make a difference.

    Matt

  14. #12
    Content Provider Emeritus ratagonia's Avatar
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    This set of canyons was explored before we developed all-ghosting techniques. It is not clear that all-ghosting would work in these canyons anyway. All-ghosting is kind of silly once a canyon is opened to the public anyway. Well-placed webbing anchors are probably better for published canyons than ghosting in keeping the canyons tidy.

    I hope whatever webbing anchors are in there are neat and tidy, and placed for minimum rope grooves. People CAN also use a fiddlestick to eliminate the need of pulling the ropes through, thus minimizing grooves. This would be courteous.

    Tom
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  15. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by ratagonia
    This set of canyons was explored before we developed all-ghosting techniques. It is not clear that all-ghosting would work anyway. I hope whatever webbing anchors are in there are neat and tidy, and placed for minimum rope grooves. People CAN also use a fiddlestick to prevent pulling the ropes through, thus minimizing grooves. This would be courteous.

    Tom
    Thank you for the explanation. We did ghost the ones we went through and removed the webbing we found.

    Rob

  16. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by ratagonia View Post
    People CAN also use a fiddlestick to eliminate the need of pulling the ropes through, thus minimizing grooves. This would be courteous.

    Tom
    Do you have a diagram or description of how to setup and use a fiddlestick?

  17. #15
    Bogley BigShot oldno7's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrAdam View Post
    Do you have a diagram or description of how to setup and use a fiddlestick?
    Do a search under my name on a post I made regarding stein knot.
    Something like how do you stein.

    Anyway, replace the ruler with a 1" dowel and you have a releasable setup. Brendan uses a piece of fiberglass out of a sail. Having used both--I'd say a dowel releases as easy or easier than the piece of fiberglass. Weight and size are very comparable.


    Found the post--

    http://www.bogley.com/forum/showthre...521#post491521

  18. #16
    Content Provider Emeritus ratagonia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oldno7 View Post
    Do a search under my name on a post I made regarding stein knot.
    Something like how do you stein.

    Anyway, replace the ruler with a 1" dowel and you have a releasable setup. Brendan uses a piece of fiberglass out of a sail. Having used both--I'd say a dowel releases as easy or easier than the piece of fiberglass. Weight and size are very comparable.


    Found the post--

    http://www.bogley.com/forum/showthre...521#post491521
    We tried a wooden dowel, and it turned out poorly. When wet, the wood becomes much stickier ==> does not release.

    The fiberglass sail battens have a good texture, and won't change with wetness.

    I have also been using 1/2" tent pole segments, but they are very smooth so a little spooky.

    A tough balance to achieve.

    Tom
    ____________________________________

  19. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by ratagonia View Post
    This set of canyons was explored before we developed all-ghosting techniques. It is not clear that all-ghosting would work in these canyons anyway. All-ghosting is kind of silly once a canyon is opened to the public anyway. Well-placed webbing anchors are probably better for published canyons than ghosting in keeping the canyons tidy.

    I hope whatever webbing anchors are in there are neat and tidy, and placed for minimum rope grooves. People CAN also use a fiddlestick to eliminate the need of pulling the ropes through, thus minimizing grooves. This would be courteous.

    Tom
    Well, said Tom. I am not sure what people were expecting.
    Penny

  20. #18
    Bogley BigShot moab mark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ratagonia View Post
    We tried a wooden dowel, and it turned out poorly. When wet, the wood becomes much stickier ==> does not release.

    The fiberglass sail battens have a good texture, and won't change with wetness.

    I have also been using 1/2" tent pole segments, but they are very smooth so a little spooky.

    A tough balance to achieve.

    Tom
    When I played around with this a year ago I was having a hard time gettting the stone knot to collapse after pulling out the dowel. Have you seen this problem or maybe you are tying the knot differently?

    Mark

  21. #19
    Content Provider Emeritus ratagonia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by moab mark View Post
    When I played around with this a year ago I was having a hard time gettting the stone knot to collapse after pulling out the dowel. Have you seen this problem or maybe you are tying the knot differently?

    Mark
    Simplest version going upward - I might shoot some pics tomorrow.

    T
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  22. #20
    Bogley BigShot oldno7's Avatar
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    We've used the dowel on pulls up to 200', no problem.

    I do suggest if using a dowel to coat it prior to use, I use an epoxy resin.

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