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  1. #1
    Bogley BigShot oldno7's Avatar
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    How Do You Stein

    Or more commonly called "Stone" hitch/knot?

    I see several differing methods shown online, I wouldn't say one is particularly better, but here is my version, It is based off the figure of 8 design and I believe puts less tension on whatever device you secure with, be it drafting ruler or carabiner, thus making the release of the securing device somewhat easier than those who base the stone hitch off a overhand rather than a figure of 8.

    Please note the use of a 1/4" mallion rapide in the system........
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  3. #2
    Pointer-----> Bo_Beck's Avatar
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    OK! So what's the intent, "purpose" for using this hitch?
    I'm supposing it's to isolate each individual strand?

  4. #3
    Bogley BigShot oldno7's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bo_Beck View Post
    OK! So what's the intent, "purpose" for using this hitch?
    I'm supposing it's to isolate each individual strand?
    Yes, Bo, Mostly isolating strands. But there are other applications but I won't get into them here. Mostly just seeing how others are tying this hitch.
    It is handy if you have a good anchor and some room, to expedite folks through a canyon.

  5. #4
    Content Provider Emeritus ratagonia's Avatar
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    Looks good. That would be an Upward-Figure-8 Stone. I've been using an Upward-Overhand-Stone myself. The bending force on the drafting ruler is the same or very close, Fig 8 or Overhand.

    Tom
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  6. #5
    Bogley BigShot oldno7's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ratagonia View Post
    Looks good. That would be an Upward-Figure-8 Stone. I've been using an Upward-Overhand-Stone myself. The bending force on the drafting ruler is the same or very close, Fig 8 or Overhand.

    Tom
    I could never dispute the force on the ruler, I have no way of testing.
    The key I would guess, is getting started "UPWARD", the 8 version has one more twist vs. the overhand.
    I've witnessed a few attempts that didn't take that into consideration.(upward)
    So I thought to post a refresher.

  7. #6
    Bogley BigShot oldno7's Avatar
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    I believe this would be Tom's variation.
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  8. #7
    Content Provider Emeritus ratagonia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oldno7 View Post
    I could never dispute the force on the ruler, I have no way of testing.
    The key I would guess, is getting started "UPWARD", the 8 version has one more twist vs. the overhand.
    I've witnessed a few attempts that didn't take that into consideration.(upward)
    So I thought to post a refresher.
    The downward facing works too. But, when fiddlesticking, the downward-facing gets stuck, while the upward-facing self-clears.

    T
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  10. #8
    Bogley BigShot oldno7's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ratagonia View Post
    The downward facing works too. But, when fiddlesticking, the downward-facing gets stuck, while the upward-facing self-clears.

    T
    I wasn't going to bring that up(fiddlestick) but yes--I agree from what limited use I have witnessed.

    Downward facing in the overhand version creates a "cinch" knot that repeated loading over-tightens.

  11. #9
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    This is also used to tie off slack in climbing...

  12. #10
    Bottom Tier Superhero Iceaxe's Avatar
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    How Do You Stein
    ...I though this was going to be about beer....

    ***slowly backs toward door and exits quietly**

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  14. #11
    Content Provider Emeritus ratagonia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by qedcook View Post
    This is also used to tie off slack in climbing...
    Really? When where why how?

    T
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  15. #12
    Outdoor Guru Scott Card's Avatar
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    I gotts me a Totum! I haven't used this knot since.



    I have used it in the past to isolate strands for efficiently sending groups down rappels.
    Life is Good

  16. #13
    Trail Master Dan-wild's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Iceaxe View Post
    ...I though this was going to be about beer....

    ***slowly backs toward door and exits quietly**


    I think I'll join you where ever the beer is...

  17. #14
    Zions the "s" is silent trackrunner's Avatar
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    figure 8 & upwards like the first set of pictures

  18. #15
    Content Provider Emeritus ratagonia's Avatar
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    I posted up on my new new tech tips blog...

    http://www.canyoneeringcentral.com/t...ll-that-stuff/

    Tom
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    “Ideas on earth were badges of friendship or enmity. Their content did not matter. Friends agreed with friends, in order to express friendliness. Enemies disagreed with enemies, in order to express enmity.”

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  19. #16
    Hi Tom, just checked out the tech tip. I'm curious, you stated

    "– While perhaps not as ready-to-go as a contingency anchor, like many single-rope techniques, the Stone converts easily to a lowering system. To set yourself up for success, tie your Stone Knot as close as possible to the anchor."

    What is the best way to do this? The first thing that came to my mind was attaching another rope to the loop made in between the anchor and the stone knot. Throw up some webbing and rapide and rig a munter with the new rope, take all the slack out as you can, then cut the webbing for the original set up. Lower. However, this requires a second rope.
    better off outdoors

  20. #17
    Content Provider Emeritus ratagonia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cookiecutter View Post
    Hi Tom, just checked out the tech tip. I'm curious, you stated

    "– While perhaps not as ready-to-go as a contingency anchor, like many single-rope techniques, the Stone converts easily to a lowering system. To set yourself up for success, tie your Stone Knot as close as possible to the anchor."

    What is the best way to do this? The first thing that came to my mind was attaching another rope to the loop made in between the anchor and the stone knot. Throw up some webbing and rapide and rig a munter with the new rope, take all the slack out as you can, then cut the webbing for the original set up. Lower. However, this requires a second rope.
    You could do it that way, but it would be slow and as you say requires more equipment.

    There's an easy and efficient way of doing it, but it is kinda difficult to explain in type. Perhaps Kurt will take a crack at it.

    Tom
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  21. #18
    Trail Master MrAdam's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cookiecutter View Post
    Hi Tom, just checked out the tech tip. I'm curious, you stated

    "– While perhaps not as ready-to-go as a contingency anchor, like many single-rope techniques, the Stone converts easily to a lowering system. To set yourself up for success, tie your Stone Knot as close as possible to the anchor."

    What is the best way to do this? The first thing that came to my mind was attaching another rope to the loop made in between the anchor and the stone knot. Throw up some webbing and rapide and rig a munter with the new rope, take all the slack out as you can, then cut the webbing for the original set up. Lower. However, this requires a second rope.
    While there might be an easier way, I would use a 2:1 or 4:1 mechanical advantage to get the load off the stein knot. After that you can rig up your favorite lowering system, figure 8, munter, etc. and lower away! This will work best if you are using the stein knot to isolate 2 strands and have the other side of the rope available for lowering. If using the stein for fiddlesticking, you would need a second rope and would also need to deal with a knot in the system.

    FWIW, using the totem in Jester mode isolates both strands and is a contigency anchor that converts to a lowering system without using mechanical advantage.

  22. #19
    Z-Crew Deathcricket's Avatar
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    Ugh, I have tried and tried those knots but they always cinch up like a bitch and it takes me longer to get them out than anything. I tend to canyoneer with my 230lb 6'4" buddies a lot. So instead of spending 4 minutes trying to get that bad boy off at the end, I just do something like this. Gay I know, but the removal part at the end is simple plus I like using quick draws to attach directly to the each anchor (when 2 are present) and bypassing the webbing. There should be a 2nd quick draw but everything is packed up for tomorrows trip, and I don't feel like rummaging around to get another one. Hehe.

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    Your safety is not my responsibility.

  23. #20
    Content Provider Emeritus ratagonia's Avatar
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    Are you back in High School, DC?

    Using "gay" as an epithet is mildly offensive when high school kiddies do it, but it is part of the culture, so waddayagonnado?

    But among adults? Are you an adult, DeathCricket?

    Tom
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    Kurt Vonnegut, Breakfast of Champions

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