ATS different rap rigging; Totem-ish

[dougr]

At 0:52 in the video on the Totem, there's shown an unnamed descent mode using the sticht slots where there's no need to even open the 'biner gate to get on/off.

(

The ATS can be rigged similarly. The cross member of the device would seem to offer substantive support for the pinching load, and the length of the device would seem to preclude the line from popping over and off.

Would you consider this safe on the ATS?

There is no direct connection to the 'biner or device. It is possible to completely slip off this. Yet in water this would be quick. With the ATS there's no chance of losing the device when the gate is open, so no advantage to not opening the gate in that regard.

Also it does appear the pinching on the back side might cause undue friction? More so if the ATS is rotated from how it is in these pics, but nonetheless.

[ratagonia]

Would you consider this safe on the ATS?

Please allow me to re-direct your question.

What do you mean by "safe on the ATS"?

Perhaps you would like an authorization from Sterling to do this with their device, and/or with their rope?

Or perhaps I am asking the philosophical question:

"How do people/canyoneers decide something is safe or effective?"

Tom

[oldno7]

dsr

let me help you here. Using a swiss army knife abseiling device opens the door for literally 100's of rigging options.
What works for you, very well may not work for me or even Tom. I suggest if you want to experiment, do so on a low angle slab
many times before committing yourself to a vertical rappel. There are no new ideas with these devices, they have mostly all been tried on many occasions,
some work, some don't.
I suggest finding 1 or 2 methods that works well for you and sticking with those, familiarity is a good thing, experimenting in canyons is not.

[Deathcricket]

It doesn't look like it would be enough friction to me, and the device might twist 90 degrees. However if you could make this work I think it would be a good way to get some more use out of your device and wear it in a different spot. So in effect it could last a bit longer. And that would be totally worth it. I say test it out someplace safe and report your results! Hehe

[ratagonia]

Philosophical discussion aside, it looks to me like it would have too MUCH friction, and might actually even lock. So be sure to be in a place and situation, when you test it, where you are safe whether it gives you too much or too little friction.

Tom

[Brian in SLC]

Just tried it for a very short bit...too much friction and twists the heck out of the rope.

[deagol]

I can't comment on the ATS, but I have used the mode that Rich shows in the video at 0:52 on the Totem and there is a lot of friction due to the rope rubbing against itself (anchor strand rubbing against strand going around the backside of device). Going down the rope this way works for me (not very smooth, though), but my wife is lighter and it too much friction for her weight. It also seems hard on the rope. With the Totem, there is a similar mode where you clip the opposite hole that is clipped in the video (the one by the large circle opening) and pass the rope through the large circle and wrap it over the slotted section to the “neck” of the device. In both cases, the rope running around the backside of the device runs around the neck and it seems there is almost no chance of this slipping off (this mode has even more rope rubbing, so I don’t like it). The ATS rigging looks a little more prone to the rope slipping off the top, to me. It looks like it wouldn't slip off if tension was on the rope, as long as the device wasn't being scrapped aling a cliff where the strand wrapped around the backside could get caught on something.

Off topic a bit: another great way to rig the Totem is using what is shown in the video as “throttle mode” but using two biners instead of one. This gives a nice platform for the Totem to rest on and it actually holds me in place unless I pull down on the “throttle” a tad to move down the rope. It is very smooth and feels safer due to the “auto stopping” functionality. It is not as quick to rig as the mode shown in the video at 0:52, but a lot smoother. It almost looks like you could do throttle mode on an ATS, but it is not quite as long to give the same leverage ??? Others may tell me I am wrong….. always a learning opportunity.

[trackrunner]

I suggest finding 1 or 2 methods that works well for you and sticking with those, familiarity is a good thing, experimenting in canyons is not.

X2

[DesertDuke]

I confuse easily and this video seems to have proven that once again. I had a hard enough time changing from a figure 8 to using an ATC. With the hand full of raps I get to do each summer I think that having 24 options would just jack me up. What can I say....I'm a simpleton I guess; though I appreciate that you pros are always looking for a different/better way. I hope the new set up works for someone, but I sure like having my rope through the 'biner.

[Branin]

I suggest finding 1 or 2 methods that works well for you and sticking with those, familiarity is a good thing, experimenting in canyons is not.