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Thread: To Bogley Members:

  1. #1
    Moderator jman's Avatar
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    To Bogley Members:

    To Bogley Members,

    Most of you may not know me personally, but I have been a long time member of Bogley at least since 2005 (formely known as uutah.com). Of those years, I have seen and read many fantastic, well-written Trip Reports, of the many diverse places of this incredible world! This is what makes this forum such an addictive place. Some of you frequent here maybe 3x/day and might call that excessive. I, on the other hand, at the very minimum, check this forum (mainly using the Tapatalk app for iPhone) about 30 times/daily. And that's probably on a slow-day too! ha ha.

    My first point (of this written novel), is that since 2005, I have met a handful of you members and would consider your my friends. And strangely, even though I haven't met some of the more frequent posters - it feels like I know all about them (good and bad).

    But over the past few years, it seems like our mentality of the forum, rules, and respect for one another has significantly taken a turn for the worse. And for one reason or another, I have no idea why. Perhaps it's the winter doldrums (again) or familiarity with one another. However, that's never an excuse to not have decency (conservative word...I know I know. ), thankfulness, and it goes without saying, but the ideal must be reinforced - respect. You don't have to like one another, but please be considerate to noob and veteran, young and old.

    The best part of Bogley, to me, is that we have a wide range of outdoor sports, with deep passion to our sports and world, spanning across the world (although primarily located in Utah), and with a fantastic user base! Really, Bogley would not be what it is (good or bad) without every one of you!

    Believe me, as I have a point to all of this, so please read on but while I first recognize a few people.

    Next, I want to highlight some of our members and their contributions on why Bogley is a great forum, not JUST for the outdoors.

    First is Accadacca (Scott) and Sombeech (Justin). They are the owners and admins, and full-time employees of everything that see here. They have dedicated more time and energy to this forum, than nearly every-one of us, combined! This forum is free for everyone to use and comes with little responsibility. However, please keep in mind (respect is the key here) that what you type and say reflects ALL of us here at Bogley. Either good or bad. I'm not saying to change who YOU are, and I'm certainly not going to censor the things you say, even if it's profane and pornographic (we have a members-only forum for that).

    *****All I ask is for all of us (including myself) to use a little more respect, and kindness in our words towards each other.*****

    Speaking of which, the forum should not tolerate the words of someone when they say "the bogley way", especially when they a little more privileges than the normal member. We need have more respect for ourselves and stand-up. Besides, people who say that adage, are the very ones contributing to that very expression. Ironic.

    Second, all of the contributors to the Canyoneering forum: @ratagonia , @Iceaxe , @AJ, @CarpeyBiggs , @moab mark , @tcott , @hank moon , @deathtointernet , @french_de , @ilipichicuma , @ghawk , @Audilard , @ststephen , @canyoncaver , @mdd , @RAM , @trackrunner , @oldno7 and many, many more. By far, this is the most active forum with the exception of the General Discussion. There are SO MANY TRs, great questions, beta, information, and very helpful advice. The people here, such as Tom and Shane and MDD have published books, and the advice they give is very appreciative. Keep in mind (preaching to the choir) that posting and responding is a not a full-time job for them. It's all volunteer. The stick around for the passion of the sport, and our incredibly active forum. Some would argue that it's THE most active canyoneering forum in the US. If not most of the world! Thank you to every one of you! Keep posting your questions, comments, but please show a little more respect to each other and keep things a little more civil.

    Other great contributors: Loah (fishing). If you haven't read his TRs, then you are missing out on a LOT of great information, pics, and a over-all great GUY!

    Bruteforce (ATV), posts descriptive TRs and has some good stories to tell.

    Mountainbiking: @REDFOX , @RedSpecialized , @Sombeech , @accadacca , @blueeyes , @neilether make this another active forum. The people here are very friendly and post a a lot of helpful information, and they don't take themselves to seriously (they post their crashes sometimes)!

    Rockart Ruins: If you have not seen @IntrepidXJ TRs, again, you are missing out on a LOT of great information and pictures! @coinslab , use to be a frequent poster and haven't seen him for a while, but he posted a lot of great TRs back in the day too.

    Backpacking and Camping: We had some great members here (but due to difference of opinions and personality conflicts (to say nicely)) but they decided to leave and take the TRs with them. They were extremely detailed and their photos were professional grade! However, a lot of information still resides here and is still active. @denaliguide has a lot of great information to share and funny stories (so I hear).

    Running: A fairly new section, but a few contibutors make it from vanishing. @Gambel Oak , @trackrunner , @Sun Dance , @ross88guy , @ststephen , @Riseforms , @Thomas , are just a few who are very knowledgable with everything from proper stretches and form, to shoes, to great music to run too. And wouldn't you believe it, some runners take pictures while they trail run. Don' be afraid of asking for help here.

    Caving: @jumar , @RedRoxx , @canyoncaver , @ndonaldj , @errinevans , @cookiecutter (currently on his 2yr LDS mission), @Red shurtz, @CaverMC , and many others make this forum a very special one. Not many people venture into caves, and seeing their pics and stories, makes this one a not-miss either. They provide invaluable knowledge and experience. A bunch of great people, even though they might not share every single location of caves with the whole world. Scour the threads there and you might find some of the reasons behind their motives. It's not as bad and elitist as you might judge.

    The other forums, hunting, snowmobiling, skiing, etc are ones I don't frequent on a regular basis, but my analysis of the threads tell me that they have great contributors just like the other sub-forums. Thanks everyone for your participation here!

    Bogley is also seeing a influx of across-the-pond visitors! They seem to frequent the canyoneering and hiking section in particular, especially for the Southern Utah areas. I have to pay respect to them for their great English skills (although no one is judging) but more importantly, their tales while staying here in the SouthWest are an eye-opening experience. Thanks @Rob L , @maarten.1975 , @Michael_WB , @Cirrus2000 (ha ha), @zzyzx for letting us share our world with you and thank you for your contributions and different perspective (compared to most of us living in Utah, who take living here for granted sometimes).


    Well, asI'm skimming back through what I just wrote - I should probably get to my point again (I can easily get distracted...). I just wanted to say thanks for all our members for their participation, knowledge, experience, and helping people who share our similar love and passion for the outdoors. Of course, we are going to different opinions, and disagree with each other. That is perfectly normal and healthy. We need that dialogue. HOWEVER, please show a little more respect and civility for one another. A recent example comes to mind of "secret" canyon beta. Apparently some had the "mob mentality" and attacked the original poster for doing investigative research on the canyons. This is not acceptable. He is 100% free, and should be 100% harassment-free to find out whatever he wants. And those who want to share or not to share are given those same rights too. But please don't make it a pissing-contest and about flexing of muscles (cause I have the biggest out of everyone here ). Grow up!


    Thanks for reading and thanks for being part of this great active community. Now, go outside and explore (and of course, post your TR!).

    If you have any questions, comments, concerns - please PM me, reply here, message one of the admins or other mods, and let's all try to help each other out and be more helpful and positive.

    -Brett

    EDIT: don't worry, Scott nor Justin, (or anyone else for that matter) coerced, bribed, hinted at this message whatsoever. This was my own doing. I just wanted to get a few things out there in the open. And of course a thank you for everyone who participates.

    PS - sorry for all of my typos, and grammatical errors. I got a little lazy and didn't want to re-read my own text. haha
    ●Canyoneering 'Canyon Conditions' @ www.candition.com
    ●Subscribe to my friend Jeff's Youtube Channel - you can watch our adventures there.
    ●Hiking Treks (my younger brother's website): hiking guides at www.thetrekplanner.com
    "There are two ways to die in the desert - dehydration and drowning." -overhearing a Park Ranger at Capitol Reef N.P.
    "He who walks on the edge, will eventually fall."

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  3. #2
    Thank you jman. I suspect that we are all experiencing the winter doldrums and some have cabin fever. It happens every winter on bogley.

    You have stated your points very well and I appreciate the positive post. The spats that happen from time to time are far outweighed by the good things that bogley has to offer. It sounds like you drain some serious iPhone battery every day trying to read it all! I know I do! My phone doesn't last through the day...

    Cheers!


  4. #3
    Adventurer at Large! BruteForce's Avatar
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    Nicely worded! Thanks!
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  5. #4


    I always think of Bogley as one big family, and occationally there is a disagreemnet or fight in all families, but at the end of the day it's all good.

  6. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by jman View Post
    A recent example comes to mind of "secret" canyon beta. Apparently some had the "mob mentality" and attacked the original poster for doing investigative research on the canyons. This is not acceptable. He is 100% free, and should be 100% harassment-free to find out whatever he wants.
    Absolutely agreed. We need to fix this.

    Thanks jman.

  7. #6
    Canyon Wrangler canyoncaver's Avatar
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    At the end of such a nicely written "can't we all just get along" post, I found it extremely amusing to see this at the bottom of it.

    Quote Originally Posted by jman View Post
    In a world full of Democrats, it's easy to forget that there are still good people in the world.
    It didn't offend me (even though my mother-in-law thinks I'm a Democrat), but this is a good example of a comment that anybody could get away with in real life, but can come across as harsh and divisive during an online discussion. Some people can be really put off by this kind of humor.

    I am not defending the recent tar and feathering that our friend Sandstone Addiction just received. I actually thought that was quite childish and petty. I think we all can agree that ganging up on a new poster and berating them for breaking "rules" that they had no way of knowing existed in the first place is not to be tolerated.

    What I'm trying to say is that sometimes snarky comments are meant in fun and end up being taken to be anything but. I don't know what the solution is, just that I have seen the same thing play out on every bulletin board I am subscribed to. I have also been on both ends of the situation.

    There is something about these bulletin boards that invites conflict. It is not just this one. I believe that the format itself somehow contributes to conflict. Many of us are just smart-asses naturally, but it is hard to get this across in a benign way on the interwebs. I'd be open to any ideas about how to fix this.

  8. #7
    Moderator jman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by canyoncaver View Post
    At the end of such a nicely written "can't we all just get along" post, I found it extremely amusing to see this at the bottom of it.



    It didn't offend me (even though my mother-in-law thinks I'm a Democrat), but this is a good example of a comment that anybody could get away with in real life, but can come across as harsh and divisive during an online discussion. Some people can be really put off by this kind of humor.

    I am not defending the recent tar and feathering that our friend Sandstone Addiction just received. I actually thought that was quite childish and petty. I think we all can agree that ganging up on a new poster and berating them for breaking "rules" that they had no way of knowing existed in the first place is not to be tolerated.

    What I'm trying to say is that sometimes snarky comments are meant in fun and end up being taken to be anything but. I don't know what the solution is, just that I have seen the same thing play out on every bulletin board I am subscribed to. I have also been on both ends of the situation.

    There is something about these bulletin boards that invites conflict. It is not just this one. I believe that the format itself somehow contributes to conflict. Many of us are just smart-asses naturally, but it is hard to get this across in a benign way on the interwebs. I'd be open to any ideas about how to fix this.
    hey, I'm entitled to my smart-ass comments too you know. ha ha But yes, I see your point. It is kind of tongue-in-cheek. And I'll have those snarky comments here and there, however, I'm not going to say canyoncaver you suck because you are a democrat and you have some really strange weird, godless ideas. Or Scott Card is a mormon and because of that, he can't be trusted, ever. And crap like that. That's crossing the line.

    But yes, every forum has these same problems one time or another. It's not a matter of if, but when. But again, that's not an excuse to be uncivil. But it doesn't hurt to say thanks to our contributors every once in a while, does it?
    ●Canyoneering 'Canyon Conditions' @ www.candition.com
    ●Subscribe to my friend Jeff's Youtube Channel - you can watch our adventures there.
    ●Hiking Treks (my younger brother's website): hiking guides at www.thetrekplanner.com
    "There are two ways to die in the desert - dehydration and drowning." -overhearing a Park Ranger at Capitol Reef N.P.
    "He who walks on the edge, will eventually fall."

  9. #8

  10. #9
    Bogley was a great find for me last year. I'm a fairly new member, but have been a member of the great outdoors for a long time. Great people here and great information. Hopefully everyone enjoys my TRs. Thanks for a great website!

  11. #10
    @jman - What nice sentiments and a great reminder for us to all try and make this forum the place we want it to be. I know I feel like I've received far more than I've given by virtue of spending time here and getting to meet so many of you, either virtually or in person. All the squabbles seem insignificant to me in contrast with the passion and friendships I see nurtured here, all because we are all just plain crazy for this beautiful wilderness of ours. I hope I can still hang with y'all for more years to come... And, there's still quite a few folks I need to meet f2f!

    It's also a well timed post for me and a kick in the rear to get me back spending more time on Bogley. I've got some gear and route questions and then hopefully in a month or so some TRs to post! Grand Canyon and then Spring Break are coming up!
    It is good that warriors such as we meet in the struggle of life... or death. It shall be life. - Ten Bears, "The Outlaw Josie Wales"

  12. #11
    Moderator jman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ststephen View Post
    @jman - What nice sentiments and a great reminder for us to all try and make this forum the place we want it to be. I know I feel like I've received far more than I've given by virtue of spending time here and getting to meet so many of you, either virtually or in person. All the squabbles seem insignificant to me in contrast with the passion and friendships I see nurtured here, all because we are all just plain crazy for this beautiful wilderness of ours. I hope I can still hang with y'all for more years to come... And, there's still quite a few folks I need to meet f2f!

    It's also a well timed post for me and a kick in the rear to get me back spending more time on Bogley. I've got some gear and route questions and then hopefully in a month or so some TRs to post! Grand Canyon and then Spring Break are coming up!
    Thanks Stephen, I appreciate your kind words! Your contributions don't go unnoticed, that's for sure. Including everyone I mentioned above.
    ●Canyoneering 'Canyon Conditions' @ www.candition.com
    ●Subscribe to my friend Jeff's Youtube Channel - you can watch our adventures there.
    ●Hiking Treks (my younger brother's website): hiking guides at www.thetrekplanner.com
    "There are two ways to die in the desert - dehydration and drowning." -overhearing a Park Ranger at Capitol Reef N.P.
    "He who walks on the edge, will eventually fall."

  13. #12
    Now THIS is the type of post to go in General Discussion.

    Thanks again jman. We are a diverse crowd. I disagree with folks on here that I love to hang out with in person. And I think I can speak for most everybody when I say Vice Versa, that there are some people we don't want to hang out with but we'd rather chat with online.

  14. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by jman View Post
    Or Scott Card is a mormon and because of that, he can't be trusted, ever. And crap like that. That's crossing the line.
    Wait.. what? Its not the Mormon thing that is not trustworthy, its the lawyer thing... Please, let's be clear here.

    Thanks for the original post Jman. Good stuff.
    Life is Good

  15. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by canyoncaver View Post
    I am not defending the recent tar and feathering that our friend Sandstone Addiction just received.
    What? Did I miss something?

    I've felt nothing but love from everyone I've interacted with in my short association with Bogley.

    Now our friend Slot Machine, on the other hand, might not feel the same way.

    But I will say this, after a month or two of posting on this forum (this is the first one I'ver ever been interested in enough to follow) I soon learned that I absolutely have to reread my post and decide if it is offensive, lame or worthwhile. I've probably written twice as many posts as my count says, because after I finish I look it over and decide that I best click on the "Cancel" button and afterwards I'm glad I did.

  16. #15
    Bluegrass Junkie powderglut's Avatar
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    Bite Me!!!!!

    Doh!! Sorry didn't mean to be disrespectful!!

    Yes.. there has definitely been some drama here. Seems a shame that people can get so angry. Pushing the right/wrong buttons I guess.
    I got to explore a lot of cool SW "Deserty" stuff starting in the 70's, when there was no internet. You'd hear about some place and have to see it. Maybe a cool picture in a book. Where is that place?? I got to hike down the Paria and Coyote Gulch before permitting. So pristine, and no people. Grand Canyon, raft Lodore and the Yampa.

    I guess my point is.. that there is now, so much info out there. Yay!!!! I really, really, like it. When I happened onto this site and Bo and Tanya's, it was like...freaking jackpot!!!!! WOW!! What better for my new addiction in my old age. 2 or 3 Utah/Arizona strip visits a year and growing. Good thing I'm close by.

    So keep up the good work, don't freak out. After all, we're just "shootin the shit" about some of the most beautiful and coolest places on the planet, and right in our backyard!! How cool is that!!!!

    Good stuff Bogley!!

  17. #16
    Canyon Wrangler canyoncaver's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sandstone Addiction View Post
    What? Did I miss something?

    I've felt nothing but love from everyone I've interacted with in my short association with Bogley.

    Now our friend Slot Machine, on the other hand, might not feel the same way.
    Whoops, sorry. I meant to say Slot Machine. I was meaning to go check that after I wrote it and then never did....

  18. #17
    well said jman !!! I don't say alot here but do read all the time.. awesome site thanks ya'll

  19. #18
    Thank you jman, for your kind of words.
    For me, as an alien across the pond, Bogley's is an wonderful outdoor-community.
    A lot of enthusiasts are here, w/ a great bunch of infos, betas (sometimes hard to understand) and stories about the life in UT.

  20. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by jman View Post
    ....Bogley is also seeing a influx of across-the-pond visitors! .... more importantly, their tales while staying here in the SouthWest are an eye-opening experience. Thanks for letting us share our world with you and .....
    Well, thanks so much for sharing your world with me! I accidentally discovered the beauty of the South-West of the USA about 3 years ago, and after my 1st holiday, I was addicted. I returned twice afterwards, and the 4th time is coming up in May. The hospitality of the people I met during my holidays and here on the forum is unbelievable (meant in a very very positive way!). The information I got from Bogley helped me a lot during my holidays, and is again helping me preparing the next holiday. I hope I

  21. #20
    Moderator jman's Avatar
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    Thanks for the kind words, I'm glad the forum has been supportive.

    Maarten I've been watching your TRs and your experiences while over here and I'm impressed with how much information you have picked up. You and xxyzxx sound like natives.

    Heck, you two probably know more about SW desert and Utah then 75% of Utahns do. Haha

    Maarten for your trip in May if you need assistance or a few extra partners, we'd love to help out. I have one friend who speaks fluent German in our group. And I just bought a truck so I can carry a bunch of gear and people too.

    Wait a second - May is typically when Bogley has its Bogley Moab Fest. If this Fest forms up this year (which it probably will) you should meet the gang and do many canyons.
    ●Canyoneering 'Canyon Conditions' @ www.candition.com
    ●Subscribe to my friend Jeff's Youtube Channel - you can watch our adventures there.
    ●Hiking Treks (my younger brother's website): hiking guides at www.thetrekplanner.com
    "There are two ways to die in the desert - dehydration and drowning." -overhearing a Park Ranger at Capitol Reef N.P.
    "He who walks on the edge, will eventually fall."

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