Conflict of Interest?

[ratagonia]

Yes, yes I did and I stand by those statements. I think we all know that these canyons will change in character as they are popularized. Will it be the death of a canyon? Sure blogospheric hyperbole to make the point regarding how a wild canyon changes with human impact. We can have a debate about whether that is a good thing or a bad thing. The inherent contradiction is that I am involved in canyoneering in no small measure because of the success of forums like this. I am sure that is true for many canyoneers. At the same time I can understand the reluctance of certain canyoneers to spill the beans and share information on canyons as a way of preserving wild places. The irony is that in many cases it appears that the canyoneers most actively involved in promoting and in many cases profiting from the growth in canyoneering are also the ones weighing what information to disseminate.

The conflict of interest is obvious.

Ken

I fail to see what the conflict of interest is, Ken.

There are plenty of canyons for people to do out there, plenty with published information, plenty without. I think there should be a balance, and I think the current balance is about right.

I have the most at stake, financially, of the players here.

Canyoneering is growing just fine, thanks. Publishing more canyons is not necessary for canyoneering to grow, at least, publishing more canyons in an already target-rich environment. Certainly publishing more canyons near Las Vegas will spur growth there, but there are many, many canyons published in Utah, so publishing more is not likely to increase growth of the sport here.

As you pointed out, there are many, many canyons in Mr. K's book that are pretty close to un-visited, despite being 'published'.

What I see is that people publish or don't publish based on their philosophy, with very little attention to their personal finances involved.

You might consider Shane an exception, but it is clear that Shane does quite well at his day job, and the little bit of 'income' he gets from pay-for-play is rather beside the point. If his interest was money, he would redirect the time and energy he spends on his website to working harder at his dayjob.

As in hypocrisy, conflict of interest is in the mind of the beholder.

Tom

[spinesnaper]

Tom

Perhaps I did not spell it out...I am talking about my own hypocrisy here. I benefit from the hard work that you and other have done. Yes I use the beta you and others have published. Yes I use the bolts you go to pains to place and maintain. Yes I pick up my gum wrappers and do my best to minimally impact canyons I travel in but of course there are impacts even if it is just adding to a use trail. Conflicts of interests and apparent conflicts of interests are inevitable. The point I was trying to make is that if there was agreement perhaps it would possible to dial back the exposure of the canyon in question. I could be and probably am wrong about that.

Despite the apparent conflict of interest, there is a place for nuance. As I have stated, where others might feel withholding information is elitist, I think choosing not to publish information about a particular canyon to help preserve its character is a very appropriate choice. I apologize if I have offended you.

Ken

[ratagonia]

Tom

Perhaps I did not spell it out...I am talking about my own hypocrisy here. I benefit from the hard work that you and other have done. Yes I use the beta you and others have published. Yes I use the bolts you go to pains to place and maintain. Yes I pick up my gum wrappers and do my best to minimally impact canyons I travel in but of course there are impacts even if it is just adding to a use trail. Conflicts of interests and apparent conflicts of interests are inevitable. The point I was trying to make is that if there was agreement perhaps it would possible to dial back the exposure of the canyon in question. I could be and probably am wrong about that.

Despite the apparent conflict of interest, there is a place for nuance. As I have stated, where others might feel withholding information is elitist, I think choosing not to publish information about a particular canyon to help preserve its character is a very appropriate choice. I apologize if I have offended you.

Ken

No offense found or taken, Ken. I was more addressing the meme "conflict of interest" rather than the specific statement. Though where you say "The conflict of interest is obvious.", I still fail to see what you are talking about.

tom