American Canyoneers needs your input!

[Branin]

Then perhaps your job should be to coach him up on the history of canyoneering politics.

Somehow it seems to me that those who aren't in the know (or willfully ignorant[like me]) maybe ought not be brought up to speed... Some of us want to get along with everyone. And have the idealistic dream of one day everyone getting along(ish) with everyone. :-p

[Bo_Beck]

Maybe spoken without the graces of the ibod, but speaking from my observations; the AC is being organized and created with much thought. Thwarting situations that were inherent in the last attempt are big considerations (if not the biggest). It seems to me that every last "minute" of meetings so far have been directed to establish a community that will be beneficial to all concerned people. This would include the canyon'eering' community, potential canyon'eering' community, management of the resources of the canyon'eering' community, folks involved with the dissemination of any and all information regarding canyon'eering', and protection of the right to disseminate this information. Yes, it may seem quite simple to incorporate, but there considerations that must be looked at. What state to file the articles of incorporation in? Liabilities, and indeminification? Bank accounts and payment methods? Recruiting memberships? Pertinent and responsible information to be presented? Bylaws and administration? I know, this doesn't seem to be much, but being certain that it is all done properly with much forethought takes time especially since we all have dayjobs and committments as well. I know that the ball is rolling, and sometimes this takes patience and help of others. I honestly believe that we're headed in the right direction and barring a lot of un-needed heated critisizm, maybe this thing will present itself to the majorities satisfaction. Give it a chance, and take a risk by being involved. I hadn't met any of the ibod members except maybe once or twice before, but I do see a genuine group of proffessionals that are truly concerned with establishing an organization not for their own benefit, but an organization that will become the voice of all people that are involved in a rapidly growing activity. I personally feel that it can and will work. Many issues may not be apparent to you now, but after having served on the board of S.U.C.C. for the last 8 years; seeing that major concerns don't all appear at once; issues sprout, and grow over time and without an awareness and proactivity are resolved without our involvement. Our involvement is the key.

[Wolf]

Well said Bo...

WOLF

[ratagonia]

Well said Bo...

WOLF

Tom

[trackrunner]

thanks bo

[Iceaxe]

Thanks Bo...

For what its worth.... I could care less about a membership card, gear discounts, bumper stickers, t-shirts or free Slurpee's.... you can keep the time and money you would spend printing, laminating and mailing my membership card and put it towards the cause.

[restrac2000]

Clearly spoken, Bo.

[oldno7]

Well said Bo

and thanks for just coming here and giving us details and hope.

[Cirrus2000]

Well said, Bo!

[reflection]

Bo's comments, generally, are to be complimented.

1. 501C3 status. I heard from a number of people the group was going that direction. I mistakenly assumed someone was pursuing a filing. Based on what's been reported though, I'd put that off for the near or mid term future. Probably not a necessity or real benefit to the group. Contributions/donations to a group like that; not really tatamount to making an offer to a charitable organization and getting a tax write off.

2. Corporate Filing. In it's present status it would be as a Non Profit; dues or membership would cover overhead. Where to incorporate? Three IB members in Utah, one in AZ and one in CAL. (none in Nev). For a volunteer group that has no assets or liabilities and meager income or expenses, it wouldn't make much difference what state the incorporation was in. There are minor differences in fees and in the number of officers required.

3. Liabilities, Indemnification. If an individual is guiding or taking people out (for hire), liability insurance is a basic necessity. And in the corporate business world, LLC's are set up by professionals to shield damage claims and liabilities. But in the province of outdoor volunteer organizations, those concerns are really not part of the normal course of business. Is there a circumstance where AC would want or need liability or indemnification insurance/protection? I have no idea. Maybe the parameters of what the group plans to do is outside the normal specter of what outdoor volunteer groups normally involve themselves in.

4. Bank Accounts. Can be set up under an individual or an individual/using a DBA; as a corp with a DBA, or simply under the Corp name. The business account is more pricey than the individual account. These days, a min balance of $1K -1.5 is necessary to allay a monthly bank fee.

5. The reach of AC? "Will become the voice of all people that are involved.... OR will become A VOICE, of those involved in the canyoneering community.

There are already quite a few clans, many chieftans and lots of indians or soldiers involved in the canyoneering areana in America. Many of them pay no attention to any canyon web group and march to their own drum. Lots of others are involved and wish to participate in some capacity in the general movement. Have no idea if ACA plans to partner with AC or visa versa (I don't care). And I don't know about active canyoneers that don't join the ranks of AC. They are somehow bound or directed by a group they don't wish to involve with? (I'm speaking of others, not myself)

6. Caution and Concern? If lots of money is involved, logistics are in question, and other serious questions still abound, I guess folk can wait. Otherwise, targeting itself as a non profit, the incorporation could happen within days and then bylaws and accompanying article of incorporation follow after drafts are circulated and agreed on.

Some folk apparently are already moving, acting in the capacity as assigned agents for AC? I'm talking outside the scope of current IB members. Non profit, volunteer groups can do as they please, generally. No entity (right away) puts a microscope or probe on them. And some, never in fact incorporate, just operate as defacto entities.

That's the nature of groups and organizations. Interests and directions. Can bind and unite; cause others to disassociate or disconnect. Leaders styles, manner; or controlling manner of active participants, can have an impact on potential participants. (Wolf, Bo, (Dan) at least to date, seem to have a very prudent, poised & positive manner.)

[Felicia]

Well said Bo...

WOLF

And thank you ALL for moving forward.

Cheers!

Felicia

[Jaxx]

I got to about page 3. I haven't been around Bogley very often lately. It looks like not much has changed.

[Wolf]

FYI, American Canyoneers is going to incorporate in AZ. A lawyer is drawing up the papers and the process should be completed in a few weeks. 501c3 papers to follow...

WOLF

[accadacca]

FYI, American Canyoneers is going to incorporate in AZ. A lawyer is drawing up the papers and the process should be completed in a few weeks. 501c3 papers to follow...

WOLF

Great news!