Comments, corrections and suggestions sought fo Zion: Canyoneering, second edition

[Scott Card]

behunin can become right fork of middle left fork of zion canyon.
[/taged for strong sarcasm]

Oh, and Heaps should be renamed "Not Behunin"

[trackrunner]

Oh, and Heaps should be renamed "Not Behunin"

gunsight of heaps should be named not behunin

[deagol]

Also, thanks for not using only the metric system and not spelling photos as "fotos"


I especially liked the section "What would water do".

[Bo_Beck]

An explanation as to why "Mystery Canyon" isn't "Not Mystery Canyon" and why "Not Mystery Canyon" ends up being a Mystery Canyon for some?

[Exergy]

Add this to the disclaimer so people know your position before buying

Pick up a couple of Kelsey's book, so he gets the blame.

[yetigonecrazy]

Off Topic but i feel it needs to be addressed.

all of this Michael Kelsey bashing is petty and immature......

if you all dont like him, thats fine....but to be lambasting him with d-bag comments on a forum like this over and over is pretty damn silly.

i dont really care for someone who is a well known figure on this site, his attitudes and his general nature towards lesser canyoneers, but does that mean i make fun of him behind his back? no. does it mean I make snide comments about his book in other threads? no. i shut up, I hold my tounge, and i move on. easy.

dont know why its so hard for you "profressionals" to let shit go sometimes.

does anybody want to point out an entire series of 20+ books THEY have successfully written and published? thats what i thought.

if youre going to act like middle schoolers, then i will tell you what middle schoolers get told: if you dont have anything nice to say, then don't say it. sure, its ok to bash MK over and over because he isn't a force in this community. But if I was to start bad mouthing Tom and his books, the shit storm would never end. Hypocrisy much?

[canyoncaver]

Bro, you got a lot of free time for getting all upset on the internet? You should go hike a few kilometers, you know, go see some PIC and PET, take some fotos, you'll feel better. Don't forget BH & QL and your KP/EP. And most importantly, "DON'T BLAME ME!"

[jman]

Oh great...not this again.....

[Iceaxe]

all of this Michael Kelsey bashing is petty and immature......

Is it fair and immature that people comment or bash on Steve Jobs or Bill Gates?

I see no problem with discussing a 'public figure.' A public figure is someone who injects themselves into the public view in a particular area; i.e., writing canyoneering guidebooks, appearing in canyoneering documentries, offering insight and opinions in news print and magazines on the subject. Once an indivdual has entered the public arena they are fair game for public comment.

Your Mileage May Vary

[Exergy]

Whoaa Crazy

Now that we're off topic, ain't nobody bashing no one! If anything, it was a jab at Tom. At the time, Tom was just doing a little CYA and redirecting what he saw to be a potential lawsuit (go back to the original thread). All in fun. Cool. Back on topic now.

[ratagonia]

Add this to the disclaimer so people know your position before buying

I don't remember what the original thread was, but it sounds like a snide comment I would make...

Perhaps, Exergy, if you remember, you could link to the original thread.

Tom

[ratagonia]

Is it fair and immature that people comment or bash on Steve Jobs or Bill Gates?

I see no problem with discussing a 'public figure.' A public figure is someone who injects themselves into the public view in a particular area; i.e., writing canyoneering guidebooks, appearing in canyoneering documentries, offering insight and opinions in news print and magazines on the subject. Once an indivdual has entered the public arena they are fair game for public comment.

Your Mileage May Vary

Public Figures. like, Shane and Tom.

T

[deagol]

I didn't see any MK bashing here.
Just sayin .....

[tcott]

An explanation as to why "Mystery Canyon" isn't "Not Mystery Canyon" and why "Not Mystery Canyon" ends up being a Mystery Canyon for some?

Just curious, what are the canyons next to Mystery like? Anything good with the right gear so you don't need rescue?

[trackrunner]

Just curious, what are the canyons next to Mystery like? Anything good with the right gear so you don't need rescue?

here is the story behind bo's comment. this canyon is a hazard to knocking rocks on the tourist below you can't get a permit for it.
http://climb-utah.com/Zion/zionrescue1.htm

if these canyons were any good you would have heard of them. search bogley and you can find some first hand accounts of people who have been down them. most are brushy, dirty, lack any good rappels. tom described one something along the lines: why did we do this canyon when we could have done mystery!

[french_de]

Since i got a Kindle Fire for Xmas and have had the chance to reference many types of books ( geology, field guides, hiking guides etc.) on it I am hoping you consider having your next edition available in a Kindle fire format. I would buy both the soft bound and Kindle Format

Doug French

So No Kindle Huh?

[Scott Card]

Any statements in the book about runoff or post flash flood flowing water and how that changes everything? Just curious so as to assist those who walk while staring at guide books to know that canyons like the Subway go from pretty darn easy in "normal conditions" to down right nasty in runoff.

[ratagonia]

Any statements in the book about runoff or post flash flood flowing water and how that changes everything? Just curious so as to assist those who walk while staring at guide books to know that canyons like the Subway go from pretty darn easy in "normal conditions" to down right nasty in runoff.

There will be talk on each canyon about "seasonal adjustments", thing like in spring, snow melts and flows down the canyons. The start of that is up on http://www.canyoneeringcentral.com

Tom

[ratagonia]

here is the story behind bo's comment. this canyon is a hazard to knocking rocks on the tourist below you can't get a permit for it.
http://climb-utah.com/Zion/zionrescue1.htm

if these canyons were any good you would have heard of them. search bogley and you can find some first hand accounts of people who have been down them. most are brushy, dirty, lack any good rappels. tom described one something along the lines: why did we do this canyon when we could have done mystery!

One we did is called "not worth it". It goes over the pass at the dogleg and drops into Orderville. We used the rope one time, but we didn't have to. Might be hard to get up without a rope there. Awful bushwhacking, and the Bushwhacker wasn't even there.

Oops, I should not have let out of the bag, one of our special, elitist canyons... darn, too late now!

Tom

[ratagonia]

So No Kindle Huh?

I'll look into it, but I cannot give it a high priority.

T