Pine Creek conditions?

[Branin]

Any one know what conditions are like in Pine Creek right now?

I'm also open to suggestions for a good winter accessible canyon within a couple hours of Cedar City. I'm hoping for something spectacular but relatively easy. Trying to get a newbie hooked (she's new to canyoneering, but has quite a bit of experience with high angle activities).

Thoughts?

[deathtointernet]

Any one know what conditions are like in Pine Creek right now?

Cold? Sorry, don't have too much here. Have been in several Clear Creek side canyons in the last week, everything is fairly dry, snow light and limited to north-facing slopes and sheltered areas. Have also (accidentally, funny story there) been in the water in one Clear Creek side canyon pothole recently, and I can confirm that the water is cold indeed

There's always Yankee Doodle. Wasn't it supposed to be in good shape fairly recently?

[Scott Card]

How does she like the cold or really cold and wet? This time of year Pine Creek would be mighty cold. Also, seems there is always a breeze at the last rap. So cold, wet and windy just would not be my choice for starting a noob unless she is different that just about every other noob out there. I'd wait a few months to test her if you like her or the other theroy is to test her now in Pine Creek if you really really like her and don't want to waste more time and money on her if this sort of thing is a high priority requirement to be girlfriend material.

[Iceaxe]

cold, wet and windy just would not be my choice for starting a noob

x2

But maybe he is trying to dump her in a nice way.... in that case Pine Creek in December or January would be perfect.... What a great way to get rid of a clingy girlfriend you no longer want to hang out with..... You can even skip the "It's not you, it's me" brush off...

[Branin]

There's always Yankee Doodle. Wasn't it supposed to be in good shape fairly recently?

As she is an experienced climber and outdoorsperson I'm looking for something a bit more intense than yankee doodle...

My biggest concern with pine creek is whether or not its passable without ice gear. Don't want a repeat of a trip to birch this spring where we found the slot made of bright blue ice instead of bright red sandstone. Very pretty... Otherwise kinda scary.

[tcott]

I have done pine creek in the winter a couple times. Never had any issues. The pools freeze over (usually not thick enough to make it across) my only concern would be getting to the last rap if there is ice on the slickrock, but it has been clear every time I've been there. Also if it is a cold day watch your footing, the water that drips off of you can freeze pretty quick when it hits the rocks.

[Branin]

What do people think about Russel Gulch/Subway in the winter?

[ratagonia]

What do people think about Russel Gulch/Subway in the winter?

While it has been fairly cold, it has not snowed here in Zion for a while. Sunny. Pine Creek should be in good shape, meaning probably not much ice. It can be hard to get to the first rappel point, but there are bolts back away you could use to rap into the first pool. Likely cold and wet, which can be dealt with using technology.

Russell Gulch/Subway? There are not many daylight hours. The sun angle is really low. You may need to pick your way through icy spots. The Red Ledges section might all be verglas, in which case it would be very slow - not much choice there but down the wet rock. There are many different sun aspects, so very hard to predict where things might be impassable or tricky - for instance, the climb up the lava slope might be icy and snowy, treacherous even with crampons. My imagination says you will get to the climb out about 10 pm, cold, exhausted, and find it impassable, eventually coming out the Right Fork Trailhead at 10 am the second day, as the rescue is just getting underway, and closing the Subway until July.

It does not seem like a good idea to do a canyon you are not familiar with, in winter conditions.

Tom

[ratagonia]

As she is an experienced climber and outdoorsperson I'm looking for something a bit more intense than yankee doodle...

My biggest concern with pine creek is whether or not its passable without ice gear. Don't want a repeat of a trip to birch this spring where we found the slot made of bright blue ice instead of bright red sandstone. Very pretty... Otherwise kinda scary.

The real question here is... do you like her, or is this a subtle way to get rid of her????? Or maybe you want her to never go canyoneering again?

Tom

[Branin]

It does not seem like a good idea to do a canyon you are not familiar with, in winter conditions.

Tom

I've done both Pine Creek and Subway (although not Russel Gulch, always come into Subway through Das Boot), just never in the winter. Number of daylight hours was one of my concerns with Subway. Pine Creek being clear is good.

The real question here is... do you like her, or is this a subtle way to get rid of her????? Or maybe you want her to never go canyoneering again?

Tom

She's a good friend of mine. Worked with her at a youth camp doing climbing and a ropes course for a couple of seasons. Climbing partner of mine. Been trying to get her to go canyoneering for some time, but here recent ownership of a wetsuit has her convinced she should go. So... Like her, and would like her to go again.

[trackrunner]

Been trying to get her to go canyoneering for some time, but here recent ownership of a wetsuit has her convinced she should go. So... Like her, and would like her to go again.

just one wetsuit? GREAT! be sure to post a TR afterwards

[Branin]

just one wetsuit? GREAT! be sure to post a TR afterwards

She was actually recently given two wetsuits and a vest. Lucky...

[ratagonia]

I've done both Pine Creek and Subway (although not Russel Gulch, always come into Subway through Das Boot), just never in the winter. Number of daylight hours was one of my concerns with Subway. Pine Creek being clear is good.

Russell Gulch adds an hour or so in summer. In winter??? I have also heard that the raps in Russell can have considerable ice on them could mean problems = slower going. Then again, after doing Russell Gulch, you might decide that was enough and hike out. It's a long hike for a good bit of canyon.

We did Subway yo-yo once in winter, and it was good. But I would suggest 3 person minimum for the climb at Keyhole Falls. And it was in March, so the days were quite a bit longer.

http://canyoneeringusa.com/rave/0703zion/index4.htm

Lower Refrigerator is not much of a canyon, but could be fun, and would be dry.

http://canyoneeringusa.com/rave/1005lowf/index.htm

Tom

[Branin]

Thanks for the feedback guys.

Went down to Zion Wednesday. Due to an unforeseen late start we ended up doing Keyhole just for times sake. Water was a little cold (and frozen solid in the open spot)... It was a lot of fun. I wore a 4:3 and was cool but fine. She wore a 4 on top of a 3:2 and was colder than me, but she had fun too. Took some coaxing in a couple spots, but she did mostly great. Her biggest complaint all day was adjusting to how a wetsuit feels. Ran into someone in shorts and a t-shirt (no shoes) trying to climb up from the bottom a few hundred yards from the end. He looked COLD . After we finished Keyhole she wanted to do a little hiking to stretch the legs (out of a wetsuit), and make good use of the trip down. So we ended up doing the pine creek overlook, so that she could see what the future (hopefully) holds. Following our sadly short day in the park dinner was had at Wildcat Willies, which was very good. Their Guiness gravy is awesome. All in all: Good times were had by all.

[ratagonia]

Thanks for the feedback guys.

Went down to Zion Wednesday. Due to an unforeseen late start we ended up doing Keyhole just for times sake. Water was a little cold (and frozen solid in the open spot)... It was a lot of fun. I wore a 4:3 and was cool but fine. She wore a 4 on top of a 3:2 and was colder than me, but she had fun too. Took some coaxing in a couple spots, but she did mostly great. Her biggest complaint all day was adjusting to how a wetsuit feels. Ran into someone in shorts and a t-shirt (no shoes) trying to climb up from the bottom a few hundred yards from the end. He looked COLD . After we finished Keyhole she wanted to do a little hiking to stretch the legs (out of a wetsuit), and make good use of the trip down. So we ended up doing the pine creek overlook, so that she could see what the future (hopefully) holds. Following our sadly short day in the park dinner was had at Wildcat Willies, which was very good. Their Guiness gravy is awesome. All in all: Good times were had by all.

Awesome, good job.

[accadacca]

Ran into someone in shorts and a t-shirt (no shoes) trying to climb up from the bottom a few hundred yards from the end. He looked COLD

[Branin]

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