Brainstorm: Canyoneering Adventure Challenge

[jman]

MOD: Moved from the "Trad v. Sport" thread. -Jman

What about speed canyoneering (or "hypercanyoneering" as Jared Campbell calls it)? Maybe it's for ADHD canyoneers. I know there's a few of you out there like me that love seeing just how fast and eficiently you can do a slot canyon. Slot canyons to me are like parkour taken to a whole new level. I try to take as little gear as possible and do the canyon as fast as possible often linking together three to five canyons in a day. I must admit, however, that I'm not stopping to smell the roses much this way, so every once in a while I take it easy and just enjoy the scenerey.

5/day? Is that a regular thing? You doing laps, or canyons you've done numerous times?

The most I did in one day was U-Turn, Dragonfly (including the long exit out), rappelling off Corona Arch 3x, Cameltoe, and then watching X-Men Origins: Wolverine later that evenin in Moab. That was a long day!

Derailing thread: Hmm...now you got me interested how many I can do in Zion in 1 day (and not including laps of the same canyon). Hmmm... Keyhole (40mins), Pinecreek (2 1/2 hrs), Echo (depends), and Spry (3-4hrs) and end with Mystery (4 1/2hrs). That would be very tough and exhausting! But I like the challenge. Oh, and this would be me and a partner.

[DRobb]

5/day? Is that a regular thing? You doing laps, or canyons you've done numerous times?

The most I did in one day was U-Turn, Dragonfly (including the long exit out), rappelling off Corona Arch 3x, Cameltoe, and then watching X-Men Origins: Wolverine later that evenin in Moab. That was a long day!

Derailing thread: Hmm...now you got me interested how many I can do in Zion in 1 day (and not including laps of the same canyon). Hmmm... Keyhole (40mins), Pinecreek (2 1/2 hrs), Echo (depends), and Spry (3-4hrs) and end with Mystery (4 1/2hrs). That would be very tough and exhausting! But I like the challenge. Oh, and this would be me and a partner.

Nice! But did you stay awake all the way through X-men? I glad to hear there's people out there interested in doing canyons this way. I never do the same canyon more than once in a day. Maybe that's the ADHD side of me kicking in, but I like variety. My favorite link up is Ding, Dang, Crack, Chute, Little Wild Horse, and Bell in a day. I like this link up because all the canyons are very runable, you don't need any gear, and they're close together so you're not wasteing time driving. It adds up to around 28 miles by the time your done (maybe we should call this "endurance canyoneering" instead of speed canyoneering since I'm not moving too fast by the end). I've linked up technical canyons too. You can stack up a pile of canyons in a day at the Northwash and Roost areas where there's a high concentration of canyons close together. Like you said, Zion would be a sweet place for link-ups if you didn't have to pay a fee for every canyon. If your fast, that can add up! I like your Key Hole, Pine, Echo, Spry, Mystery idea. That sounds like a fun (but expensive!) day. I might have to add that to my hit list. The most famous Zion link-up is, of course, Kolob, Imlay, and Heaps, but I'm not man enough for that one...yet.

[jman]

Nice! But did you stay awake all the way through X-men? I glad to hear there's people out there interested in doing canyons this way. I never do the same canyon more than once in a day. Maybe that's the ADHD side of me kicking in, but I like variety. My favorite link up is Ding, Dang, Crack, Chute, Little Wild Horse, and Bell in a day. I like this link up because all the canyons are very runable, you don't need any gear, and they're close together so you're not wasteing time driving. It adds up to around 28 miles by the time your done (maybe we should call this "endurance canyoneering" instead of speed canyoneering since I'm not moving too fast by the end). I've linked up technical canyons too. You can stack up a pile of canyons in a day at the Northwash and Roost areas where there's a high concentration of canyons close together. Like you said, Zion would be a sweet place for link-ups if you didn't have to pay a fee for every canyon. If your fast, that can add up! I like your Key Hole, Pine, Echo, Spry, Mystery idea. That sounds like a fun (but expensive!) day. I might have to add that to my hit list. The most famous Zion link-up is, of course, Kolob, Imlay, and Heaps, but I'm not man enough for that one...yet.

As a mod, I should move this into a new thread "endurance or speed canyoneering", but I'm too lazy right now. Lol. What we could do have a competition in Zion. We come to a concensus on canyons, reserve them, etc and one group does them the 1st day, 2nd group 2nd day, or start them in reverse or something, and whoever finishes first wins a awesome prize and praise by all. Think of it like FreezeFest but different. I like it!

Ps - it doesn't have to be in Zion per se, since the red tape would get in the way, unless the superintendent would allow for an exception for the competitors. Escalate, Roost, Moab, whatever.

[trackrunner]

NLike you said, Zion would be a sweet place for link-ups if you didn't have to pay a fee for every canyon.

I've heard you only need one permit if the route is not normally done by vehicle transportation. telephone/behunin, echo/mystery, etc. but don't quote me I'm sure will correct me.

[ratagonia]

I've heard you only need one permit if the route is not normally done by vehicle transportation. telephone/behunin, echo/mystery, etc. but don't quote me I'm sure will correct me.

Correct, mostly. If you do not travel by car (and maybe the Shuttle bus), then you can put multiple canyons on one permit.

Competitions in National Parks are generally prohibited. A little competition between friends is probably not an issue; announcing the competition to the public definitely is.

Remember that affiliated parties cannot draw a permit for the same canyon on the same day. AND the party must travel together. So, you might establish an itinerary, then separate parties could do it on different days.

We had a pretty good time on Heaps and Imlay (full, full) at 23 hours 9 minutes. Has been topped, but they cheated, being superhuman. And besides, I was, apparently, 95 years old at the time, so some handicap might be expected.

Tom

[jman]

Correct, mostly. If you do not travel by car (and maybe the Shuttle bus), then you can put multiple canyons on one permit.

Competitions in National Parks are generally prohibited. A little competition between friends is probably not an issue; announcing the competition to the public definitely is.

Remember that affiliated parties cannot draw a permit for the same canyon on the same day. AND the party must travel together. So, you might establish an itinerary, then separate parties could do it on different days.

We had a pretty good time on Heaps and Imlay (full, full) at 23 hours 9 minutes. Has been topped, but they cheated, being superhuman. And besides, I was, apparently, 95 years old at the time, so some handicap might be expected.

Tom

Oh TomTom the GPS who always points me in the right direction, thanks for the clarification.

I will ask the super anyways, as it doesn't hurt to ask. Perhaps he would like the publicity, the stunt, whatever, and allow an exception? Optimisic? Of course. Probable - not likely. Zion would be fun, just because of the anemities in Springdale for R&R afterwards.

[forum8fox]

If you wanna be the dean potter of canyoneering you gotta run big tony, long branch, ddi, and p.i.n.t.a.c in a push. Or how about a down and up thrax as many times as possible competition? I do enjoy link ups, but I can't handle a 28 mile day with "running" thrown in on top of that. Plus I like taking pictures too much to be that rushed. Perhaps if I get better I will be able to shoot on the fly, or get a go pro and hope I can pull some decent images between the two. Linking canyons can be fun, just like linking long rock climbs. Endurance days are for masochists... I'm not much of a huge distance person or a runner at all but I've put my share of 15+ mile days in. The diamond is hands down one of my biggest days to date, started the day by going to work, getting off and driving to boulder after a 9 hour day of heavy glass installation (glazing), had a couple beers at the southern sun while waiting for my partner, (he)drove to the TH,we started hiking around 1 am,got to the base of the route and started soloing up the north chimney at sun rise with wet approach shoes, summited the casual route and longs peak around 1pm, back to the car by 7pm. I think that was like 14 miles and somewhere around 1300 vertical feet of climbing (mostly) above 13k. barely managed to get myself home in one piece, after all that in a non stop 36 hour day.Youthful exuberance... or perhaps I'm just

[stefan]

Oh TomTom

JmanJman (are you seeing double?)

I will ask the super anyways, as it doesn't hurt to ask. Perhaps he would like the publicity, the stunt, whatever, and allow an exception?

what planet are you on?

[jman]

JmanJman (are you seeing double?)
eh...doesn't flow as nicely as TomTom does. ;)


what planet are you on?

Haha. Perhaps the same one the super is from?

[DRobb]

As a mod, I should move this into a new thread "endurance or speed canyoneering", but I'm too lazy right now. Lol. What we could do have a competition in Zion. We come to a concensus on canyons, reserve them, etc and one group does them the 1st day, 2nd group 2nd day, or start them in reverse or something, and whoever finishes first wins a awesome prize and praise by all. Think of it like FreezeFest but different. I like it!

Ps - it doesn't have to be in Zion per se, since the red tape would get in the way, unless the superintendent would allow for an exception for the competitors. Escalate, Roost, Moab, whatever.

I think that would be a blast. We could just go ahead and do it at Freeze Fest. We could start right out of the Sandthrax campground and hit any or all of those closest canyons. Or where ever, I'm not picky. Or we could just start posting times here. If enough people were interested, could we set aside a place to do that? Anyone else interested starting a place to post fastest known times for canyons and canyon link-ups? Does it already exist somewhere?

[jman]

I think that would be a blast. We could just go ahead and do it at Freeze Fest. We could start right out of the Sandthrax campground and hit any or all of those closest canyons. Or where ever, I'm not picky. Or we could just start posting times here. If enough people were interested, could we set aside a place to do that? Anyone else interested starting a place to post fastest known times for canyons and canyon link-ups? Does it already exist somewhere?

All of the Freezfests happen at my busiest times at work. I can't get work off for it ever, it seems like. However, later in the Spring is ideal for me and my partner (he works at Backcountry.com and slow season isn't until March/April; so he can't commit to a few days).

[DRobb]

If you wanna be the dean potter of canyoneering you gotta run big tony, long branch, ddi, and p.i.n.t.a.c in a push. Or how about a down and up thrax as many times as possible competition?

No thanks! I'll just go send myself through a wood chipper and save myself the gas money. I did Sandthrax once...never again.

[xxnitsuaxx]

I'm all for this idea. My friends and I have tossed the idea around before and I think it sounds like a blast.

[jman]

Sweet! Perhaps others would like to chime in as well.

Any ideas on other linkups? or areas? Feel free to list some canyons down.

Here ya go, just thought of an idea...how about something like a "Moab Hell challenge" (for lack of a clever name - LOL).
For example; you start at Pleiades, go to Arches, and do Tierdrop, U-turn or Not-Tierdrop, do Dragonfly, and end with Rock of Ages, or something like that. Best time wins - all afterwards, we celebrate at the Moab brewery (although I don't drink), but they have great burgers! And fastest times gets a awesome prize that the group pitches in for -a 3-day Advanced Course to ZAC (worth like $1200+ for 2 people, that way there's motivation to stay motivated and win) or other cool ideas...or heck, just for fun.

Just tossin' ideas.

[ratagonia]

Sweet! Perhaps others would like to chime in as well.

Any ideas on other linkups? or areas? Feel free to list some canyons down.

Here ya go, just thought of an idea...how about something like a "Moab Hell challenge" (for lack of a clever name - LOL).
For example; you start at Pleiades, go to Arches, and do Tierdrop, U-turn or Not-Tierdrop, do Dragonfly, and end with Rock of Ages, or something like that. Best time wins - all afterwards, we celebrate at the Moab brewery (although I don't drink), but they have great burgers! And fastest times gets a awesome prize that the group pitches in for -a 3-day Advanced Course to ZAC (worth like $1200+ for 2 people, that way there's motivation to stay motivated and win) or other cool ideas...or heck, just for fun.

Just tossin' ideas.

Hmmmmm. Thanks for thinking of us (ZAC) Jman, but... Seems like, having demonstrated a high level of competence in canyoneering skills (hopefully), that a 3-day course oriented toward beginners would be an unlikely choice as a prize.

ZAC also offers a One-Day Progressive class, which is basically whatever you want it to be...

But I don't really have any suggestions otherwise.

Tom

[jman]

Hmmmmm. Thanks for thinking of us (ZAC) Jman, but... Seems like, having demonstrated a high level of competence in canyoneering skills (hopefully), that a 3-day course oriented toward beginners would be an unlikely choice as a prize.

ZAC also offers a One-Day Progressive class, which is basically whatever you want it to be...

But I don't really have any suggestions otherwise.

Tom

of course! Your business has served me and my "needs" @ Zion, very well. And i like to reciprocate the love. I've never taken the advanced 3-day course but I have heard lots of good things about it, and thought it would be a worthy prize. I dunno, just thinking of potential ideas.

Although, the progressive class would be a good prize as well.

[DRobb]

What if we had someone like Tom (assuming he doesn't want to compete) come up with a list and not tell anyone until the last possible moment. That way the playing feild is totally leveled. It might even be a nearly impossible list. Then whoever gets the furthest (within something like a 12 hour window) or finishes the fastest wins.

[jman]

What if we had someone like Tom (assuming he doesn't want to compete) come up with a list and not tell anyone until the last possible moment. That way the playing feild is totally leveled. It might even be a nearly impossible list. Then whoever gets the furthest (within something like a 12 hour window) or finishes the fastest wins.

Hmmm...mystery! So, the group meets up at the evening before the challenge and is given the envelope with the canyons. Then the group has the rest of the evening to strategize, and next morning at a given time it officially begins.

However, with your scenario how would you solve the scenario of two groups entering the canyon the same time?

Would running be allowed? Or would a wildland firefighter fitnees test be implemented - no running, but power walking is fine. Jogging is not acceptable either.

[DRobb]

We can absolutely run! For me, that's half the fun! We would only have to insist that everyone obey speed limits and drive safely between canyons. You're right about potential problems with having more than one group in a canyon at a time. You'd have to just be polite and realistic. If one group is faster, the group in front needs to let them pass. It wouldn't be that different than in single track mountain bike racing or trail races. The more canyons on the list, the less chance of running into that problem. However, I could see another problem arising if no one was able to finish all the canyons and they all did different canyons, how would you judge the winner? I really like your idea of having an evening to create strategy and then starting the next day. This sounds fun! I don't even care about a prize.

[Spidey]

I've got a crew ready!