Brainstorm: Canyoneering Adventure Challenge

[trackrunner]

driving between canyons? Kind of takes the adventure race style away from it

[ratagonia]

driving between canyons? Kind of takes the adventure race style away from it

Hmmm, thinking about where and how, to make it fair. No driving would be nice. Permits need to be a non-issue.

Can do. Even the LOCATION would be secret, both before and after.

Tom

[Scott Card]

The old man in me wonders if this thread should be titled "Thinning the Herd". Be safe fellas.

I went with Spidey and Clark on the second leg of the Book End Tour of Zion (that is what I called it). Start with a 300 foot rap and end with a 300 foot rap. Englestead / Heaps or "Engleheap". No driving for Clark and Spidey.... Walked the whole thing. I only did Heaps with them.

[Iceaxe]

Some how I ended up doing South Red Cave, North Red Cave, Pine Creek and the Sneak Route into Imlay all in a day..... It was too much for me and kinda destroyed the fun of Imlay.

I'd rather take my time and smell the flowers....

[jman]

Some how I ended up doing South Red Cave, North Red Cave, Pine Creek and the Sneak Route into Imlay all in a day..... It was too much for me and kinda destroyed the fun of Imlay.

I'd rather take my time and smell the flowers....

I love that too. But I also like variety. In no way am I implying to push safety on the wayside, Scott.

I don't think Driving detracts from the experience. Unless its like a 2hr drive to the next canyon.

All the groups would carry a GPS so their tracks can be recorded, so we all know that every group descended the right canyons, didn't exit 1/2 through and hiked the rim instead, etc.

[forum8fox]

Who cares? Sounds like the pissing match between people trying to break the speed record on the nose. Mc neally holds more speed records than those poor suckers and he's sending much more impressive routes. The only speed records I'm interested in are the ones through cutting edge canyons, not walk through's that your grandma could do.

[Mitch R.]

This is an interesting thread for a guy like me who was all worked up over the now defunct Nolan's 14 ultramarathon mountaineering event 10+ years ago.

Might be even more interesting if you structure it like an adventure race, in which you don't know what you are going to do next until you get the next set of instructions.

[jman]

Who cares? Sounds like the pissing match between people trying to break the speed record on the nose. Mc neally holds more speed records than those poor suckers and he's sending much more impressive routes.

I really, really hope you realize that we do this for fun. It's not a pissing match at all. It's funny how you post about how (in paraphrase) "I'm doing canyons that most of you will never see". Cool! Good for you! And I've probably done canyons that you will never see either. Lol. What's the big deal? Just a fun competition with like-minded folks. If our idea of a speed canyoneering seems to slow or grandma-proof for you - by all means, dont respond here...

The only speed records I'm interested in are the ones through cutting edge canyons, not walk through's that your grandma could do.

Great, we're happy for ya!

[The Good Cop]

Hey, all in good fun & challenge guys! I must say, now that I see the competition might not be any tougher than Jason & Spidey, I feel like I have a real chance! Just laughing to myself here, but it does sound like the potential for great fun with great people, and a great evening afterward. I hope something materializes & I hope I con join in with the people following in those guys' footprints through some wonderful places.

Cheers,

Wayne

[spinesnaper]

OK, you guys are definitely onto something. Should getting the permit be included in the time? That could be amusing. I think you are going to need the groups to video their descents to make them count. That creates the possibility of awarding style points.

[forum8fox]

Excuse my cynicism. Must have struck a nerve. I think I'll step out since I'm not interested in the least bit (healing from a broken back and I'm only in competition with myself). Enjoy yourselves, after all that IS what it's all about. Sorry if I seem to be that snobby and egotistical, have comfort in knowing I realize I'm not better then anyone else. I was simply trying to provide a differing POV which was merely opinion and thus worthless from the get go. Surely nothing to get worked up over to the point of personal slander, but I respect your opinion that my input was uncalled for and out of place. And for the record I wasn't saying you are slow, I'm just saying I generally don't care too much about speed and getting a million canyons done at once. I just like to enjoy the little time I have there most of the time. kinda like quality over quantity 75 % of the time unless I've already done everything around the area I'm in (which is pretty much never). Sincerely the uncool guy hanging out alone in the corner.

[Mitch R.]

Upon second thought, the old man in me agrees with Scott's "Thinning the herd" sentiments.

This speed canyoneering thing should be left to the canyoneering equivalents of Ueli Steck.

[DRobb]

I for one have no intention of doing anything to compromise the safety of my partner or myself in the name of speed. I just think this sound like a great opportunity for some laughs and good ole fashioned suffering. The competitive side of it is merely for fun. In fact, I hope that any canyoneer with a reasonable amount of experience would feel free to join us. I don't think this should be any kind of elitist "pissing match". That would certainly ruin it for me. Let's keep it grass roots and light-hearted, but still challenging in terms of both distance and technical difficulty.

So when are we going to do this thing anyway? Spring? Maybe it's a question for Tom if he's willing to be the one to choose the canyons. I think we should nail down a date as soon as possible so that people can plan for it and the excitement doesn't fizzle out.

[CarpeyBiggs]

late to the party on this thread... like the ideas though.

what about something like an alaska wilderness classic type race? only canyoneering style. the route just has minimum checkpoints you have to hit, but all the rest is up to the racers, and encourages people to find unique routes and push their limits. something like that could easily be established in the dirty devil area, escalante, north wash, or powell areas. make it a multi-day race. certain canyons are mandatory to be descended, and could have "checkpoints" in them, to ensure racers pass certain locations. or require people to carry a spot and send a signal every 4 hours. no caches, no support, no movement except human power (bikes and packrafts ok).

like the AWC says, it's the only race that everyone loses.

[jman]

late to the party on this thread... like the ideas though.

what about something like an alaska wilderness classic type race? only canyoneering style. the route just has minimum checkpoints you have to hit, but all the rest is up to the racers, and encourages people to find unique routes and push their limits. something like that could easily be established in the dirty devil area, escalante, north wash, or powell areas. make it a multi-day race. certain canyons are mandatory to be descended, and could have "checkpoints" in them, to ensure racers pass certain locations. or require people to carry a spot and send a signal every 4 hours. no caches, no support, no movement except human power (bikes and packrafts ok).

like the AWC says, it's the only race that everyone loses.

x2. Great ideas! Hmmm....

[CarpeyBiggs]

i've followed dave chenault's blog for quite awhile, and they are working on this very thing, only without the canyoneering twist, if you want to see what they are up to.

http://bedrockandparadox.wordpress.c...n-the-lower-48

[DRobb]

late to the party on this thread... like the ideas though.

what about something like an alaska wilderness classic type race? only canyoneering style. the route just has minimum checkpoints you have to hit, but all the rest is up to the racers, and encourages people to find unique routes and push their limits. something like that could easily be established in the dirty devil area, escalante, north wash, or powell areas. make it a multi-day race. certain canyons are mandatory to be descended, and could have "checkpoints" in them, to ensure racers pass certain locations. or require people to carry a spot and send a signal every 4 hours. no caches, no support, no movement except human power (bikes and packrafts ok).

like the AWC says, it's the only race that everyone loses.

Compelling ideas. I really like the multiday suggestion in particular. I have to admit, I was imagining something much simpler. What direction do people want to go with this:

1. A completely informal gathering of friends agreeing to race through a few canyons for a day with something like free dinner for the winners (more fun than competitive).

or

2. A formal, competitive, and involved race complete with entry fees and a more substantial prize.

Does anyone even have the resources and know-how for option two? I'm game for either one, but I'd prefer, at least for our first try at this, option one.

[CarpeyBiggs]

option two is pretty much guaranteed to be complicated as hell... and require permits. if there are no entry fees or prizes, then there is no need for a permit. i'd say something more simple than the monster races they do in alaska, simply because they are BURLY. i'd say a course that is roughly 60 miles, 4-6 slot canyons, with 4-6 checkpoints. can you imagine a race down the escalante river? loop it from the moody bench, neon (from the top), choprock, ringtail, the bakers, and exit back up moody canyon to the car. it'd be badass!

One description of the race: "Just a group of friends who like to party in two places, about 150 - 175 miles and a week apart."

more on the AWC could be found here - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alaska_...erness_Classic

only a couple rules, emphasis on purity of style

The rules are simple: start to finish with no outside support, requiring that racers carry all food and equipment; human-powered; leave no trace; and rescue is up to the individual to resolve. The most common form of transportation is by foot and packraft, although bicycles, skis, and even paragliders have been used by intrepid racers. Beginning in 2004, racers have been required to carry satellite phones to facilitate emergency rescues.

[CarpeyBiggs]

jman, maybe we should change the title of the thread? call it something like "Brainstorm: Canyoneering Wilderness Race" or something like that. I didn't engage the thread before because I figured it was something I didn't care about. However, a wilderness course would be much more interesting to me, even though I have no prayer in competing with the likes of spidey, it'd be fun as hell, especially if done in a 3 day weekend time frame.

[jman]

jman, maybe we should change the title of the thread? call it something like "Brainstorm: Canyoneering Wilderness Race" or something like that. I didn't engage the thread before because I figured it was something I didn't care about. However, a wilderness course would be much more interesting to me, even though I have no prayer in competing with the likes of spidey, it'd be fun as hell, especially if done in a 3 day weekend time frame.

What you are getting at is essentially my plan. Well, that was my vision after DRobb inspired me, initially. It's more the likes of the amazing race.

But yea I'm for it, let's change it. You or me doesn't matter.