discussions among our members regarding Access Issues will be handled in-house

[CarpeyBiggs]

I believe the thread was originally moderated because of our Linking Policy, which Carpey fixed on the AC site. Our mods do a great job and we rarely have issues or even see a need to moderate anything. That is well known.

Fair enough. The American Canyoneers site was updated with a link as soon as you notified me. This should no longer be an issue.

Of course, this discussion is only a result of a post made on another forum, the Canyons yahoo group. That post was made by none other than Shane Burrows, asking people to participate here on Bogley. In fact, he also did the exact same thing on a separate yahoo group designed specifically to encourage people to discuss the new association. Essentially, the same thing you are now moderating for. Do you see the inconsistency?

What's more, the moderation is at best inconsistent. At worst, it is a result of a personal rub that Shane has with me, and perhaps others in the community. The olive branch has been extended to Shane. We want his participation in this.

An example of inconsistency in moderation - a recent post announced the formation of "candition.com" Candition is a neutral forum for discussing conditions in canyons. It's a great resource. (though slightly different than this bulletin board, but content is still generated by it's members) Was the link moderated? Of course not. That discussion could very well happen on Bogley (and has for years) as well as on Candition. Are they competitors? Obviously not. Candition has very specific content and one of it's stated goals was to remain neutral, to attract a wide variety of input from canyoneers, regardless of what forum they participate on.

http://www.bogley.com/forum/showthre...t-is-over-quot

Read through the thread, it is ironic, to say the least. Scott even makes an appearance.

I don't see how the two differ much. Both have specialized information, and seek to encourage community participation regardless where people come from. Neither are to the detriment of Bogley.

The full history of the moderated thread doesn't matter at this point. It remains quarantined until we see the direction and attitude of the future organization.

I disagree. I would like to know who moderated it. If it wasn't you, for the reason you stated, I think a valid explanation is appropriate. By all accounts, it appears Shane moderated it. If that is the case, it appears personal. As I still am trying to see a concrete reason why this site would represent competition for Bogley.

It remains quarantined until we see the direction and attitude of the future organization. That has been made clear and I'll take full credit for that decision. When a mission statement is created and a board elected, then a partnership with Bogley is possible.

I appreciate you taking ownership of that decision. I disagree with your stance. The stated goals of the AC forum is simply to create an iBOD and for input directly related to it's mission statement. Obviously, if you wait until that step is completed to allow a link to the site, the mission of the AC forum has been fulfilled.

People can deduce from this what they would like, but in my opinion, it appears as nothing more than an obstacle to promoting discussion of the new organization.

I can see outbound traffic in my web stats going to the AC site and Bogley members that are interested have signed up. No reason to sling mud over it, as it doesn't help Bogley's cause or the org in its infancy.

This is also interesting. I have access to the stats on the AC end as well, and I can see referring sources. Since the post has been moderated, there has been ZERO referrals from Bogley to the AC.

The reason is simple. I've been careful not to post an actual hyperlink, with the exception of the moderated message. There are currently ZERO active hyperlinks on Bogley referring people to AC. If people want to go there, they have to type the URL directly into the address bar. Are you suggesting that you can track what people are typing directly into their web browsers? I admit my knowledge of this area is very limited compared to yours, but I am under the impression this seems very unlikely.

Energies need to be put into getting the org off the ground, not squabbling over turf.

The organization is officially off the ground. Funds have been received for the initial costs, the legal obstacles are being negotiated, and the process for selection of an iBOD is in place. All are invited to participate. The only turf war appears to be whether or not you will allow a link on Bogley to the association's site.

[accadacca]

Wow, more venom.

Dan, IMHO I fail to see how you can have any involvement in this new org. You are the polar opposite of a diplomat. In further partnership talks I would like to communicate with another member of the org. You should not be representing the new org, it is a PR nightmare. I hope this is evident. Please don't take offense.

My comments are in hopes that the org can move past previous political tensions. IMO, if they don't, the org will accomplish very little. Bogley has a full archive of the early intentions of the org. It will be wait and see for a while.

If restoring a thread will silence the wolves (no offense to wolf) then so be it. I am in meetings all day and this is taking far too much of my time already. Let me see if I can restore that thread from this tapatalk app and be done with the conversation.

Cheers

[Wolf]

Okay, you have another member of the org. I like beemers too as in motorcycles. Lets start there...I would list my email, but, I'm unable to list any links or web sites until I have a few more posts as your web site said.

WOLF

[Wolf]

wolf0421@yahoo.com email me...

WOLF

[CarpeyBiggs]

No offense taken Scott. I know diplomacy is not my strong point. My background is in journalism, after all... I've been on Bogley long enough to know how these things go. Gotta have thick skin to stick around here for too long.

To clarify though - I do not represent American Canyoneers in any official capacity, and going forward, certainly no more than anyone else. I simply volunteered some time and money to creating the website and am encouraging people to participate from as many different venues as possible. I am not an administrator or owner. I do not make ultimate decisions. I have no financial interest in it, I have no desire to be on an elected board, and though I have access to helping with the technical side of the actual site currently, that will be turned over to the iBOD as soon as they are formed and someone officially takes on that responsibility. I will be a dues-paying member though.

My goal is simply to get the Bogley community involved in the new association, since this is where I spend most of my time online. I'm proud to be a member of Bogley, and value the variety of views, even when I disagree. Hell, I've been posting and contributing here for like 4.5 years. In fact, I'm off to the weekend's Bogleyfest in a few hours, hoping to share some canyons with new folks, and continue to expand this community.

Ultimately, I believe having AC succeed will only benefit Bogley, and vice versa.

[ratagonia]

Wow, more venom.

Wow, only an extremely careful reading would find venom in Dan's careful, diplomatic post.

You know, sometimes, you just have to admit you made a mistake.

Try it, it's a lot easier than trying to prove you did not, when you did.

Tom

p.s. no venom here.

[ratagonia]

wolf0421@yahoo.com email me...

WOLF

Yo, Wolf. How'd you like that Flash Flood in Hog 2, anyway?

Tom

[tanya]

Be nice guys!


Trying to protect what one built is not venom. It's Fatherly.

Been there, done that! --- well ... Motherly at least. It's hard to let go sometimes. I don't think Scott means anything harmful, in fact I am positive of it. He has just worked VERY!!!!!! hard building something and letting go, even a little, is not always easy. I don't think he has made an error. He is just holding on tight. And... business is business. A website is business after all.

Bogley is one of the friendliest places around! Sometimes things get a bit personal, but it all works out in the end. Actually if you stay our of the dungeon things are easy going around here.


I posted the AC.org info at my Yahoo group: Zion National Park Hiking
if anyone needs the link, but I think everyone knows where to find it?

[ratagonia]

Be nice guys!


Trying to protect what one built is not venom. It's Fatherly.

Been there, done that! --- well ... Motherly at least. It's hard to let go sometimes. I don't think Scott means anything harmful, in fact I am positive of it. He has just worked VERY!!!!!! hard building something and letting go, even a little, is not always easy. I don't think he has made an error. He is just holding on tight. And... business is business. A website is business after all.

Bogley is one of the friendliest places around! Sometimes things get a bit personal, but it all works out in the end. Actually if you stay our of the dungeon things are easy going around here.


I posted the AC.org info at my Yahoo group: Zion National Park Hiking
if anyone needs the link, but I think everyone knows where to find it?

Huh!

And here I thought Bogley was an Outdoor Community, not a business.

Now that you've told me it is a business, only a business, always a business, should I re-evaluate my "contributions" to Bogley?

Or perhaps I should apply for a position as "Content Provider, Curmudgeon" - is Bogley hiring???



But let me put the real post here, rather than in the next.

Yes, Bogley is a business, I guess. For most MEMBERS of Bogley, it is an Outdoor Community internet Forum, a marvelous one. For most users, the business aspects of the Forum are very much hidden, and they only raise their head on rare occasions. When Shane said "we discussed this over at Bogley and..." I thought he meant it was discussed ON BOGLEY, with the MEMBERS OF BOGLEY, the eyeballs that produce the revenue which a few people benefit from.

I think the management of Bogley would do well to keep the business aspects of the Bog OFF the forum. The FORUM is the eyeball provider. BOGLEY IS the Forum. The Forum IS BOGLEY. I am grateful to those who set the thing up and keep it running. I hope the business aspect of it pays them reasonably well. I think the greatest risk to BOGLEY is when the Management forgets that it is first and foremost a FORUM.

Tom Jones (real name, since this is a real post, at least the second half).

[tanya]

I actually liked that post.



Drama drama Drama drama!