Zion National Park Seeks Public Comment on Wilderness

[restrac2000]

I hope you are wrong as well but I wouldn't be shocked if there is already an internal direction to the changes.

Situations like this is why I believe an organization could be valuable. I don't necessarily believe an organization supporting a specific outcome (other than the vague idea of "Access") is needed. However, I think having a voice to initiate early dialog and working groups to increase stakeholder input into the process before limitations like this are published could be helpful. Seems like we are always left with reacting to their decision. Fostering early interaction could be an improvement.

Who knows. Lots to think about.

Phillip

[trackrunner]

kind of like shane but leaning to a different option that i could be talked in to supporting option 2.

I thought when the park did this permit system they should have had the morning lottery from option 3. so that's why I support option 3.

I wonder how hard it would be to reserve a permit for a popular canyon a few days away when it's release from option 2 if you are already in the park?

[Iceaxe]

I wonder how hard it would be to reserve a permit for a popular canyon a few days away when it's release from option 2 if you are already in the park?

Probably no more difficult than it is now. In other words you will want to be on-line at a specific time when the canyons are released. I figure that canyoneers will figure out the release schedule in a couple days if its not posted by the Park. Lots of ways to get on-line in Springdale if need be, best of all you will not have to drive down from Kolob or over from the East side to stand in a line a 3 am.

The more I think about it the more I like option #2. Anything so I don't have to stand in line at 6 am is an improvemnet. Maybe release the 25% five days before? That would cure a lot of problems as few people schedule five striaght days in Zion.

[Iceaxe]

Bump...

Any pro's or con's we have over looked with options 2 or 3?

Anyone prefer option #1?

Whatever your preference please take the time to email the Park. it only takes a couple of minutes.

Here is the link to post your comment:
http://parkplanning.nps.gov/commentF...cumentID=43891

[Iceaxe]

I sent in my questionnaire, below is my response for anyone else that might find it useful. If you don't agree with me that is cool, but please take 5 minutes and send in a response.

Option #1: This is the least desirable of the supplied options.

Option #2: This is my preferred option.

Option #3: This is my second choice.

Comments: Option #2 or #3 would be a big improvement over the current situation. I would also prefer to see the ratio of long term reservation versus short term reservation split at 50% each. I understand the need for long term reservations, but I'm concerned about the high number of long term reservations that go unused. Short term reservation have a higher percentage of usage as plans are less likely to change.

I appreciate the fact that you have noticed the current permit system has some flaws and that you are working to reduce them.

Thank you for the opportunity to comment.

[Branin]

I included this comment

"I would like to see an option for printing out a Red Tag (driving and parking in the canyon during high season) for those who have Express Permits and who are doing a canyon that requires a Red Tag. The whole point of the Express Permit is to never have to visit the backcountry window, something that is impossible for those who drive down from Provo\SLC in the evening (after the window closes) and then have to start a canyon by 3 or 4 the next morning. Allowing Express Permits but not letting us print out Red Tags kind of defeats the purpose."

I've never heard anyone else complain about this and it hasn't really been an issue for me (I always ask the ranger to put me into the system over the phone and then I leave a note in my windshield explaining that I have a red tag.) but I still think it would be nice.

Wait, we can get red tags with our permits?!?!?!

[Branin]

Posted my ideas! This will be very interesting to see how this turns out...and to WHAT they actually listen to.

I did say, at the very least to increase the Subway permits to 80/day. 50 reservation, and 30 walkins. That's almost a duh for improving the permit system. Removing the quota would be fantastic, although improbable.

"What are are you here for?"
"Subway", "Subway", "Subway", "Subway", "Mystery", "Subway", "Subway", "Pinecreek", "Subway", "Pinecreek", "Subway", "Subway"...etc.

I, for one, would hate to see the quota system leave completely. Waiting in line in Pine Creek, Keyhole, and Subway drives me nuts. There are certainly some canyons that could take more visitors without this problem, and maybe without resource damage, but the three named above give out PLENTY of permits.

[restrac2000]

It seems unlikely that they will ever allow red tags to be printed at home or off-site, just too many chances for cheating the system. We have to remember they were originally designed to be used by lodge guests. Getting red tags for canyons is an exception to the rule, not the intended purpose. In fact, I have been denied red tags more often than not when asked. Heck, they made us ride the bus when we got married there.

Phillip

[Iceaxe]

Heck, they made us ride the bus when we got married there.

That's just mean.... a bride deserves a carriage of her own.

[Iceaxe]

We have to remember they were originally designed to be used by lodge guests. Getting red tags for canyons is an exception to the rule, not the intended purpose.

A few years back I had a red tag to do a canyon. After we had parked and was getting our gear ready a rangerette stopped me and asked what the hell we were doing.... I explained the deal to her.... she made us pack our gear back up, drive down and park at Canyon Junction, and ride the shuttle up.... she followed us in her ranger car the entire way to make sure we followed her interpetation of a red tag. By the time we did everything she requested the shuttle was running.... that little deal set us back about 2 hours time wise for our intended canyon.

[Iceaxe]

Bump... Get your comments in. You have until December 15th to be heard, don't lose the opportunity.

Thanks!

[The Good Cop]

Thanks for the bump Shane, just got my comments in.

[ratagonia]

Bump Bump Bump

Me, I prefer #3 to #2, but really, I prefer a combo - Long term reservations, short term reservations, AND a morning lottery.

Whatever your preference please take the time to email the Park. it only takes a couple of minutes, at most. They made it easy!!!

Here is the link to post your comment:

http://parkplanning.nps.gov/commentF...cumentID=43891

Tom

[Don]

Yeah, thanks for the bumb; I put this off till I forgot about it. Just sent my comment.

[Iceaxe]

The downside I see with #3 is it still means I have to get up at 6am to go stand in line at 7am the day BEFORE (because permits are issued one day in advance).

With option #2 I see having to set an alarm for midnight 3 or 4 days in advance, rolling over in my nice warm bed and punching a couple keys on my laptop/smart phone/tablet before rolling back over and going to sleep.

But really.... Either #2 or #3 is an improvement over the current up all night standing in line the day before approach that is curently used.

I would also like to see the lottery held for all remaining permits the morning of.

But whatever you do.... please take a minute to comment.

[Cirrus2000]

I said I'd prefer a hybrid of 2&3. 50% go to the 3 month reservation system. 25% to either 4 or 7 days in advance, online. 25% morning lottery. Plus, could they put up a board saying how many spots are left, with live computerized update, in the most popular canyon, so people can make plans in advance while they're in line.