American Canyon Guides Association ACGA

[ghawk]

Rich also asked me about merit badges (along with several other questions) and this was my reply........

The specifics such as advocacy, bolts, guides, etc are EXACTLY what a varied board of directors representing a large cross section of canyoneers should be establishing. And you can't really do that until you have a BOD.

What I presented was a sound business model, which might be why you didn't recognize it. The first item of business the ACA needs to address is getting its paper work and finances in order. Items I clearly covered in my proposal, in addition to establishing a mechanism inside the organization for establishing and accomplishing future goals.

At this point in time discussing items like advocacy, bolts and guides is akin to rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic.

Sounds good

[CarpeyBiggs]

Shane, I really want to see you and Phillip take over the ACA. Honestly, I do. I want to see where you take it from here. The two of you have earned a tremendous amount of respect in the canyoneering community and will certainly have the support of the "who's-who in the U.S. canyoneering world". With you guys in the lead, the ACA will accomplish great things in the future.

looks like even rich would vote for you shane! why even wait for Nov. 1?

[restrac2000]

Rich,

If what you say in post #40 is true:

1) Would you be willing to reinstate my account at canyoneering.net; it would help me trust that you are being "honest" and not manipulative and/or sarcastic.

2) If so, I would expect a statement on canyoneering.net from you admitting you broke the ACA forum rules (You agree through your use of the forums that you will not post any ... message that is abusive, vulgar, hateful, harassing, obscene, threatening, defamatory, invasive of privacy, or otherwise inflammatory). I understand you had the "discretion" to move my post but it seems we should expect the moderators to behave by their own rules.

Phillip

[Iceaxe]

Shane, I really want to see you and Phillip take over the ACA.

Thanks for the support Rich, but under the guidelines you have established future leadership will be decided by a membership vote in November. I have provided a proposal that mets your requirements for inclusion in the vote. I look forward to seeing the other proposals and how the voting goes. May the best proposal win.

[ratagonia]

Wouldn't it be simpler to just post a link to the thread so anyone interested can actually read all sides of the discussion?

http://www.canyoneering.net/forums/s...ds-a-New-Owner

Many of us do not feel very welcome on the ACA website forum. So I don't read over there. Nice to have it here, where all are welcome.

Tom

[oldno7]

Many of us do not feel very welcome on the ACA website forum. So I don't read over there. Nice to have it here, where all are welcome.

Tom

Exactly!! Rich seems to remove posts that pull back the secret veil.

[restrac2000]

Rich also asked me about merit badges (along with several other questions) and this was my reply........

The specifics such as advocacy, bolts, guides, etc are EXACTLY what a varied board of directors representing a large cross section of canyoneers should be establishing. And you can't really do that until you have a BOD.

What I presented was a sound business model, which might be why you didn't recognize it. The first item of business the ACA needs to address is getting its paper work and finances in order. Items I clearly covered in my proposal, in addition to establishing a mechanism inside the organization for establishing and accomplishing future goals.

At this point in time discussing items like advocacy, bolts and guides is akin to rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic.

I support the need to first set up process and structure before moving onto specific goals. This change would be loyal to the weight of my original complaints.

Phillip

[moab mark]

http://www.bogley.com/forum/showthre...hip-at-the-ACA.

For those following along, we have been here before..................................

[oldno7]

Coupla quick points:

1) If anyone thinks that the money Rich may or may not earn is a problem, I think they are wrong. Rich deserves whatever he can make, I don't know of a single person that has been part of this saga that wouldn't concur. That is not, and never has been an issue that I'm aware of. NOBODY RESENTS RICH TEACHING AND MAKING MONEY

2) We all know there will be no voting by the "members" to decide the fate of the ACA. That would require a list of members since inception, I would bet lotsomoney, said list is non-existent.
Claiming members will choose the direction and new leader of the ACA would open up legitimate offers, such as Shanes, then maybe Tom's, how bout' Phillips??Not Going to happen.
A "select" group of members, might be given the chance though, in a behind closed doors, Rich is going to decide anyway, sort of vote...

[tanya]

I vote for whoever links to my website.

[Scott Card]

I support the need to first set up process and structure before moving onto specific goals. This change would be loyal to the weight of my original complaints.

Phillip

Ya'll speak as if any of you have a say? Who ever it is that receives this company (yes, the word here is "receive") will set it up how ever they want. There is not a hostile takeover going on. Rich will do what he wants to do with this company. Yes, a common consent of some kind from the current members would be very wise in the future regarding a myriad of issues, but so far, I haven't heard that the company is a vacum waiting to be filled or that non-ACA members will have any say.

Perhaps we should split this thread. Just sayin. The original intent of the thread was to discuss guides and THEIR association, not the ACA.

[restrac2000]

Ya'll speak as if any of you have a say? Who ever it is that receives this company (yes, the word here is "receive") will set it up how ever they want. There is not a hostile takeover going on. Rich will do what he wants to do with this company. Yes, a common consent of some kind from the current members would be very wise in the future regarding a myriad of issues, but so far, I haven't heard that the company is a vacum waiting to be filled or that non-ACA members will have any say.

Perhaps we should split this thread. Just sayin. The original intent of the thread was to discuss guides and THEIR association, not the ACA.

We are at 10 pages mostly about this subject, seems a little late to change the thread.

You may not know this....I was told my class fees included ACA life membership back when I was first joining. So I think that means I am still technically and ACA member. Also, Rich did not say the offer was only for existing ACA members but then again he wasn't very forthcoming with specific details last week.

Also, technically, I am part of the "their" you refer to in regards to the ACGA.

I respect your opinion that you don't think we should be dealing with this. Doesn't mean I am willing to agree with you or change my behavior.

Phillip

[restrac2000]

Ya'll speak as if any of you have a say? Who ever it is that receives this company (yes, the word here is "receive") will set it up how ever they want. There is not a hostile takeover going on. Rich will do what he wants to do with this company. Yes, a common consent of some kind from the current members would be very wise in the future regarding a myriad of issues, but so far, I haven't heard that the company is a vacum waiting to be filled or that non-ACA members will have any say.

Perhaps we should split this thread. Just sayin. The original intent of the thread was to discuss guides and THEIR association, not the ACA.

I also find it ironic that one of the main contributors to this thread, Shane, also started it. Pretty sure he would be familiar with its "intent". ACA is mentioned twice in the only 2 sentences of the original thread. Its a hard stretch to assume the ACA isn't part of the original thread's context.

[oldno7]

Ya'll speak as if any of you have a say? .

Maybe because each and every one of us, is an ACA member, how bout you?

Rich's offer was "members" would choose a new leader.

What part of this are you having trouble following?

[ratagonia]

Maybe because each and every one of us, is an ACA member, how bout you?

Rich's offer was "members" would choose a new leader.

What part of this are you having trouble following?

Hey!!! You mean in Utah, I finally get to be a "member"????

Tom

[jman]

Hey!!! You mean in Utah, I finally get to be a "member"????

Tom

Yes, Tom, "we" will accept you.
Btw, your tithe can go to Mark's Chevron location in Layton. I heard he needs the money to go canyoneering...

[Scott Card]

Maybe because each and every one of us, is an ACA member, how bout you?

Rich's offer was "members" would choose a new leader.

What part of this are you having trouble following?

I am not a member of the ACA. I have never taken a class nor have I paid dues. Clear enough?

I am not having any problem with this at all. I think that many however forget that it was pointed out that RICH is the sole owner of the ACA and can do with it as he pleases. You have NO say in that. NONE. NADA. FACT. So what was it again that I was having trouble following? Not trying to stir the pot but memory seems short around here.

Kinda funny how ya'll are voting and ya'll don't know what you are voting on and if that vote will have any meaning whatsoever. Just sayin'

[Scott P]

I first heard of the bad blood between members of the "Steve Allen Crew" and Rich about 10 years ago (though I never heard any details, nor did I ever ask for more details). Before that I had never heard of the ACA. After 10 years, I still don't know what all this is about, but I guess I really don't want to, nor would I want to try and choose a side (if there are sides).

Sometimes ignorance is bliss. Especially ignorance that has lasted a decade and hopefully will last a few decades more.

[Scott Card]

Hey!!! You mean in Utah, I finally get to be a "member"????

Tom

Wait just a minute here.... Tom is a member and I am not? How'd that happen?

[ratagonia]

Wait just a minute here.... Tom is a member and I am not? How'd that happen?

Don't worry Scott - we're pretty tolerant of the Gentiles. Just don't let me see you rapping double-strand and we'll get along fine!!!