Pine Creek VIDEO

[Poot and Bernie]

This was our first time down Pine Creek...


http://jnjadventures.com

[Poot and Bernie]

I don't know why it won't play fullscreen but it does on the website...



http://jnjadventures.com

[Deathcricket]

Cool video! You did a great job editing it, i like the break in the music, then it starts up again. Good song selection who ever it was. Thumbs up!

[UtahAdventureGuide]

We did Pine Creek Saturday morning. It was funny because the nice lady at the backcountry desk thought we were crazy for not having wetsuits, She asked us about 4 times if we were sure. Even at 7:00 am the water was really nice and there's only 1 swimmer. everything else is just waste deep. Great Video

[moab mark]

Nice video.

[canyonguru]

no affence but why did you use a rope for the downclimb into the pothole above the FIRST rap? Thats Kiddy Stuff.

[ratagonia]

no affence but why did you use a rope for the downclimb into the pothole above the FIRST rap? Thats Kiddy Stuff.

No affence taken, whatever that is.

Yo, C Guru! There's a two-bolt anchor there (again), therefore it MUST be a rappel...

Nice looking rope, guys.

Tom

[ratagonia]

We did Pine Creek Saturday morning. It was funny because the nice lady at the backcountry desk thought we were crazy for not having wetsuits, She asked us about 4 times if we were sure. Even at 7:00 am the water was really nice and there's only 1 swimmer. everything else is just waste deep. Great Video

Waste deep... hmmmmm... is that when the water is up to your waste hole?

[Poot and Bernie]

Because Rapp'n is Fun DorkGuru...! thanks for the luv and the Nice Canyon Fire Rope.. it works Great!

[Poot and Bernie]

The Thanks is to Tom...! "Keep Rapp'n"

[canyonguru]

When 12 year old boy scouts can downclimb that drop it just seams like a waste of time to set up a rappel. JMO

[Scott Card]

In defense of old men everywhere (I am quickly approaching that category) and newbies and the timid, sometimes it is more efficient and quicker to rap than handline, particularly when the knees are bad.

I learned this lesson when taking a group of newbies through the Subway. I had a harness for me and an emergency harness for anyone who didn't want to down climb or hand-line. The harness for me was for meat anchor purposes at the boulder and keyhole falls. Since I had my harness on at the big boulder, I rapped it. Wow, was that fast and easy. Then at the last down climb/ handline/ rap into the pools, everyone handlined it and was assisted the last 6-7 feet by the first two strong guys. I rapped it and impressed everyone with my speed and grace. I had my harness on and tethered to the anchor to assist people down the short three foot drop to the chains and to make sure they were comfortable handlining the slope. Could I have left the harness at home to do the Subway? Yes. Yet with newbies, had anyone in the group been different, of poorer health, or nervous, a rap would have been best, safest, quickest and most efficient. My feeling is if the group is safe, efficient and has fun, let them rap till the cows come home, (so long as they let me play through if I am not one of them).

So in short, handline or rappel, seems like the group and its fitness and comfort level make a difference. No need to criticize. (Just remembering a certain accident in the Roost at a spot in an "easy canyon" where many down climb where a rap would have been advisable. Jis sayin.)

[Scott Card]

When 12 year old boy scouts can downclimb that drop it just seams like a waste of time to set up a rappel. JMO

In direct response, I put my harness on at the car so the first anything for me is a potential rappel. I have both rapped and down climbed this spot you speak of. My decision depended on the knees, how warmed up I was and the speed of the group.

Frankly, with harness on, it takes about 15 seconds to put a rope through the anchor and biner block it and I can then rappel faster than I can down climb so it is probably sixes for me. It takes oh, what, another minute to then stuff the rope?

But then again, I am neither fast nor cool and I haven't been so since the 80's.

[Scott Card]

OK, maybe I spoke too soon. What is considered the first rap in Pine Creek? Even though I may have never rapped the spot I am now thinking of, my points still are valid. Let them rap!

[canyonguru]

I agree your points are all valid. When i go with a group of two i always Down climb even though i (do as you pointed out) put on my harness in the parking lot. When you have a larger group there is no room to rap people down to the pot hole then pull ropes and set up the next rap station (the first rap in pine creek) IMO. It is funny to me how some people complain about Dumbing Down Canyons and putting bolts in where they don't need to be, but then turn around and defend a bolt placed in a very easy down climb. If you are going to put a bolt at the down climb you might as well put a bolt at every pot hole in Imlay or every 6ft down climb in every canyon.

Not to get in a bolting war because those have been discussed to death, but it just seams like a stupid place to put a bolt anchor and it really dumbs down pine creek even more. This is my OPINION weather it be right or not, if you use the NEW bolt in PC good for you, if you do not use it even better.

[ratagonia]

I agree your points are all valid. When i go with a group of two i always Down climb even though i (do as you pointed out) put on my harness in the parking lot. When you have a larger group there is no room to rap people down to the pot hole then pull ropes and set up the next rap station (the first rap in pine creek) IMO. It is funny to me how some people complain about Dumbing Down Canyons and putting bolts in where they don't need to be, but then turn around and defend a bolt placed in a very easy down climb. If you are going to put a bolt at the down climb you might as well put a bolt at every pot hole in Imlay or every 6ft down climb in every canyon.

Not to get in a bolting war because those have been discussed to death, but it just seams like a stupid place to put a bolt anchor and it really dumbs down pine creek even more. This is my OPINION weather it be right or not, if you use the NEW bolt in PC good for you, if you do not use it even better.

Those bolts are for rescue operations, not for that downclimb.

But you know, if there are bolts here, it MUST be a rappel!!! Doing anything else would be DANGEROUS!!!



Tom

[Scott Card]

I guess my points had little or nothing to do with bolts but rather the comment that "my 12 year old scouts can do that why can't you".

[ratagonia]

I guess my points had little or nothing to do with bolts but rather the comment that "my 12 year old scouts can do that why can't you".

Yeah, same here. My Grandma did that last year, and she died in 1998. What's wrong with you????

(besides not wearing helmets).

Tom

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