is echo canyon very prone to flooding

[2065toyota]

we have permits for echo on sunday the 31st. just looked on zions website and the flood potential has been changed to high with a 60% chance rain. never done echo before so not quite sure what the water potential is of the canyon. it would seem because of echo notoriously having nasty pools would mean they don't get washed out very often or have very much flow. not scared of a little water, i mean we are doing canyons. but logs and rocks are a little different story. thanks if anybody has any constructive input.

[ratagonia]

we have permits for echo on sunday the 31st. just looked on zions website and the flood potential has been changed to high with a 60% chance rain. never done echo before so not quite sure what the water potential is of the canyon. it would seem because of echo notoriously having nasty pools would mean they don't get washed out very often or have very much flow. not scared of a little water, i mean we are doing canyons. but logs and rocks are a little different story. thanks if anybody has any constructive input.

Look on a map, and look at how large the catch-basin is above the slot section. It is largely slickrock.

Since you ask this question, it is hard to tell you "yes", since it appears you have not developed a method for evaluating flash flood risk. Here are some things to consider:

1. How large is the basin? is it slickrock? If it rained there, how fast would it produce a flashflood in the slot?
2. How competent is my party? How long will we be IN the slot, in danger of getting swept away? Are kids involved?
3. How long is the un-remitting slot section of the canyon? If it floods, can we step out of the way?
4. Do we have a clear view of the sky around the catchbasin when we enter the slot?
5. Are we smart enough to not be stupid? Will the group dynamics make us bold or make us conservative?
6. How big an un-filled collection zone is there above the canyon? Has it been dry, or is the canyon above the slot already full?
7. How steep is the collection zone? Will there be time between when it starts to rain and when the flood would first contact us in the slot?
8. If I make my best evaluation, and am wrong, and people die, do I have any chance of living the rest of my life in peace?

Once you have answered these questions, you MIGHT be able to make an intelligent evaluation of the flash flood danger. Even an intelligent evaluation can end up being wrong. Make sure you can live with your choices.

Tom

[2065toyota]

Look on a map, and look at how large the catch-basin is above the slot section. It is largely slickrock.

Since you ask this question, it is hard to tell you "yes", since it appears you have not developed a method for evaluating flash flood risk. Here are some things to consider:

1. How large is the basin? is it slickrock? If it rained there, how fast would it produce a flashflood in the slot?
2. How competent is my party? How long will we be IN the slot, in danger of getting swept away? Are kids involved?
3. How long is the un-remitting slot section of the canyon? If it floods, can we step out of the way?
4. Do we have a clear view of the sky around the catchbasin when we enter the slot?
5. Are we smart enough to not be stupid? Will the group dynamics make us bold or make us conservative?
6. How big an un-filled collection zone is there above the canyon? Has it been dry, or is the canyon above the slot already full?
7. How steep is the collection zone? Will there be time between when it starts to rain and when the flood would first contact us in the slot?
8. If I make my best evaluation, and am wrong, and people die, do I have any chance of living the rest of my life in peace?

Once you have answered these questions, you MIGHT be able to make an intelligent evaluation of the flash flood danger. Even an intelligent evaluation can end up being wrong. Make sure you can live with your choices.

Tom

definitely have went through the above mentioned steps. but never hurts to get opinions from more experienced, that is part of the learning process right? we believe that basin is large, but does involve a lot of sand. party fairly competent, all people with at lease 10-30 canyons. no kids. no sure if canyon is unrelenting, none of us have done echo (that is where asking for opinions comes in). you don't have a choice when living with your choices, you have too. We are definitely making the final choices in whether or not we go, not relying on others to make it. But some canyons are more prone to flooding than others and we were just looking to see if anybody had any constructive inputs.

[ratagonia]

definitely have went through the above mentioned steps. but never hurts to get opinions from more experienced, that is part of the learning process right? we believe that basin is large, but does involve a lot of sand. party fairly competent, all people with at lease 10-30 canyons. no kids. no sure if canyon is unrelenting, none of us have done echo (that is where asking for opinions comes in). you don't have a choice when living with your choices, you have too. We are definitely making the final choices in whether or not we go, not relying on others to make it. But some canyons are more prone to flooding than others and we were just looking to see if anybody had any constructive inputs.

In that context:

Basin is small and all within sight. All slickrock, low-angle.

The slot is unrelenting. From the first rap into pools, to out is usually about an hour or so. The raps are all at the top, and bang bang bang. After that, there are no more swims until the very end, very few real downclimbs (but a few) and generally you could boogie through there pretty well if you had to.

Smallish group? I would consider it fairly safe flash-flood wise. About the same as Pine Creek. Bring more short ropes so the group can move through it without waiting for ropes to come forward.

Early start. Good look at the sky and group discussion before dropping into the slot.

T

[2065toyota]

In that context:

Basin is small and all within sight. All slickrock, low-angle.

The slot is unrelenting. From the first rap into pools, to out is usually about an hour or so. The raps are all at the top, and bang bang bang. After that, there are no more swims until the very end, very few real downclimbs (but a few) and generally you could boogie through there pretty well if you had to.

Smallish group? I would consider it fairly safe flash-flood wise. About the same as Pine Creek. Bring more short ropes so the group can move through it without waiting for ropes to come forward.

Early start. Good look at the sky and group discussion before dropping into the slot.

T

sounds good. thanks for the info. we will make our way to top and decide when we get there.