Best rope for Euro style canyoning? Running water...single strand...Piranha...

[Brian in SLC]

Got a trip coming up to Spain this fall. Mallorca, Costa Blanca, Barcelona is the plan for two weeks in early October. Want to have a euro style rope in the quiver.

I see Imlay has a new thicker boyant rope. Great for euro style canyoning?

What else? Sterling? Bluewater?

Besides a Petzl Piranha, what are folks using in wet canyons (running water, pool drops)?

If anyone will be in the area, let's get together for a canyon. Suggestions for area classics too, if anyone has any!

Cheers,

-Brian in SLC

[ratagonia]

Got a trip coming up to Spain this fall. Mallorca, Costa Blanca, Barcelona is the plan for two weeks in early October. Want to have a euro style rope in the quiver.

I see Imlay has a new thicker boyant rope. Great for euro style canyoning?

What else? Sterling? Bluewater?

Besides a Petzl Piranha, what are folks using in wet canyons (running water, pool drops)?

If anyone will be in the area, let's get together for a canyon. Suggestions for area classics too, if anyone has any!

Cheers,

-Brian in SLC

The new Canyonero is not buoyant. But it is thicker, for Class C type canyons.

The Sterling ATS is a Pirana clone that works better for me as it has more friction. Not sure that would be much of an issue using the bigger rope though, but it works great on a 8mm and Canyon Fire.

Tom

[Brian in SLC]

How's the Canyon Fire work whilst wet, single strand, with a Piranha? I like the colors...ha ha.

Does the Sterling ATS stay captive on a carabiner like the Piranha does?

Cheers! You around for OR next week?

[Iceaxe]

FYI: I was just reading this on the Sterling ATS

http://www.rescueresponse.com/store/...e_Diagrams.pdf

[tcott]

Does the Sterling ATS stay captive on a carabiner like the Piranha does?

Yes it does.

[optikal]

Besides a Petzl Piranha, what are folks using in wet canyons (running water, pool drops)?

I've heard the Scarab is fantastic for wet canyons and attack friction adjustments but have no personal experience with it: http://scarabrescue.com/

FYI: I was just reading this on the Sterling ATS

http://www.rescueresponse.com/store/...e_Diagrams.pdf

Thanks for the link, learned a few more things about the ATS :)

[Brian in SLC]

Yes it does.

How? The Piranha has a little rubber gasketty thing (tech talk!) that keeps it static on the carabiner. What does the Sterling ATS have to keep it on a carabiner? I'm not seeing anything mentioned in their tech notice.

I wouldn't think the Scarab would be fantastic as it'd be easy to drop it in water since it rides loose on a carabiner. At the price, not great to drop in deep water.

The nice thing about the Piranha is in turbulent flow, while you're swimming, you can disconnect from the rope with one hand while swimming/treading water and not worry about dropping it as much, since its a bit captive on a carabiner.

[optikal]

I wouldn't think the Scarab would be fantastic as it'd be easy to drop it in water since it rides loose on a carabiner. At the price, not great to drop in deep water.

The nice thing about the Piranha is in turbulent flow, while you're swimming, you can disconnect from the rope with one hand while swimming/treading water and not worry about dropping it as much, since its a bit captive on a carabiner.

Ahh yes, an important point I overlooked. Hrmmm. Great discussion, curious to see how it pans out.

[ilipichicuma]

How? The Piranha has a little rubber gasketty thing (tech talk!) that keeps it static on the carabiner. What does the Sterling ATS have to keep it on a carabiner? I'm not seeing anything mentioned in their tech notice.

Th Sterling ATS also has a little rubber gaskety thing on it, and it doesn't come off of the carabiner unless you actually want it to. I love mine. I've always been able to get exactly the amount of friction I need, and as a large guy, I really like that.

Also, floating disconnect is almost exactly the same as the Pirana, and I've never tried to to it with one hand, but I'm sure it's possible.

[oldno7]

The new Canyonero is not buoyant. But it is thicker, for Class C type canyons.

Just curious Tom. Do you have any more of your old 9mm line(blue and white)?
I like that rope better than any other in the 9mm class. I have not used your new canyonero though.

[Brian in SLC]

Th Sterling ATS also has a little rubber gaskety thing on it, and it doesn't come off of the carabiner unless you actually want it to. I love mine. I've always been able to get exactly the amount of friction I need, and as a large guy, I really like that.

Also, floating disconnect is almost exactly the same as the Pirana, and I've never tried to to it with one hand, but I'm sure it's possible.

Aha. Nice. Might be something I need to get my hands on... Thanks!

I like the belay options. Also looks like it could be used fairly reasonably as an ascender too.

[tcott]

Also looks like it could be used fairly reasonably as an ascender too.

I've used it as an ascender as well as an auto-locking top belay on multi-pitch climbs, works great for both.

[dougr]

Sterling C-IV. Technora sheath for the extra abrasion single strand entails, and a polypropelene core to resist water absorption.

[moab mark]

Aha. Nice. Might be something I need to get my hands on... Thanks!

I like the belay options. Also looks like it could be used fairly reasonably as an ascender too.

Brian,

I've got one you can borrow if you want to try one out.

Let me know

Mark

[Deathcricket]

How's the Canyon Fire work whilst wet, single strand, with a Piranha? I like the colors...ha ha.

It's shockingly fast and slick. I recommend doing double strand if you can, then it's perfect. I'm 185 pounds, 6'0 with a 40 pound backpack and on wet single strand I have to set my friction at max (super turtle setting from tech doc). I feel like I have enough, but it always scares me setting the thing at max and having no where left to increase (if I needed it). I'm usually the first guy down and like a backup plan because no belayer. If you insist on doing single strand through wet conditions, I would seriously consider getting the canyonero instead, huge difference. I have them both and think it's much better for singles. Canyonfire is better for double stranded on a piranha. Have no clue what Euro style even means though, so maybe my advice is bad.

Funny side story: So was doing a rap in birch with this new canyonfire rope. we read from beta that the rap was 100' but when we dropped our rope we couldn't actually see it touch the bottom. So just to be safe I used our backup 150' 10mm rope and would make sure the canyonfire was touching for everyone else. Better safe than sorry right? SO I get on this 10mm rope (didnt have the conyonero yet) set it on a medium setting in my piranha and started down. It was literally the slowest rap of my life and I had to feed it through inch by inch. But it was then I realized just how fast and slick this new rope is. It's a whole different beast than the old school stuff. And I captured it on video for lols..

[Brian in SLC]

Painful to watch...ha ha!

Good info on the Canyonfire 8.3mm rope. Might be a bit too fast for my people.

That Sterling string looks like a nice rope.

Anyone tried the fatter Bluewater stuff? Wonder how their stuff (which I've always liked) compares to the Sterling?

Thanks for the info!

[ratagonia]

It's shockingly fast and slick. I recommend doing double strand if you can, then it's perfect. I'm 185 pounds, 6'0 with a 40 pound backpack and on wet single strand I have to set my friction at max (super turtle setting from tech doc). I feel like I have enough, but it always scares me setting the thing at max and having no where left to increase (if I needed it). I'm usually the first guy down and like a backup plan because no belayer. If you insist on doing single strand through wet conditions, I would seriously consider getting the canyonero instead, huge difference. I have them both and think it's much better for singles. Canyonfire is better for double stranded on a piranha. Have no clue what Euro style even means though, so maybe my advice is bad.

I hope, Cricket of Death, you have a handful of tricks to add more friction to your rappel if you need it. For short rappels, single strand Canyon Fire, I usually go the 2 setting on the Pirana and it is fine. For longer rappels, I add an off-side leg loop re-direct biner. Super long, I add a biner to the eye of the Pirana and go Z-Rig.

You make it sound like there are no options past "2" on the Pirana. I hope your level of skill is higher than that. Then again, if it is not, perhaps you should stick to the double-strand technique.

The Canyon Fire is quite a bit slower than the regular Imlay 8mm, which is a little slower than the Canyon Pro. And of course the Canyonero is slower still. Thus, as American canyon-specific ropes go, the Canyon Fire is pretty much in the center. For travel, I think i would go with Canyon Fire. For regular Class C stuff like Ouray, I'd definitely go Canyonero.

T

[canyoncaver]

I've always thought the 9mm Bluewater Canyon orange rope was pretty good in water. We used one in a class C canyon in Canada one time.

I have an 8mm Bluewater CanyonPro 150' that I really like. It floats, a little. It is skinny, but the sheath always seems to provide a lot of friction. Plus, it has a spectra core that gives absolutely zero bounce. The non-bounciness adds a lot of peace of mind for such a skinny rope. Everyone I know that has tried it agrees it is bomber.

We use stainless steel micro-racks, so cannot comment on how either rope behaves in a Pirana.

[ratagonia]

Painful to watch...ha ha!

Good info on the Canyonfire 8.3mm rope. Might be a bit too fast for my people.

That Sterling string looks like a nice rope.

Anyone tried the fatter Bluewater stuff? Wonder how their stuff (which I've always liked) compares to the Sterling?

Thanks for the info!

The Bluewater 9mm stuff has a nylon core that tends to be quite bouncy. The Sterlings - um, well the CIV has a polypro core that is totally static and is very light, though it is quite bulky.

Tom

[ilipichicuma]

We used the old 8mm Imlay Canyon Rope when we did Kolob and I didn't notice a big difference in speed between the rope being wet and it being dry. We were all just using the ATC-XP with no extra friction and didn't have any trouble at all, and on single strand. I was under the impression that the ATC offered less friction than the Pirana, so I'll bet you'd be fine.