Zion - Mystery Canyon

[ilipichicuma]

My head is worth $90. How about yours?

My helmet was free, but I still value my head more than that.

[derekholmes]

I'm sure it all comes from each persons experience. I wouldn't doubt coming from the caving world you would wear a helmet. Rock climbing.. I should. In canyoneering my person experience is that I would talk someone into wearing an ankle brace before a helmet. In zion's with all the river sections I've had to carry a few people out but never because of loose rocks.

But for sure the next pictures I post I'll be looking like the Michelin Man.. Head to toe padding... But then you'll probably read about me dying from heat stroke ;)

[ratagonia]

I'm sure it all comes from each persons experience. I wouldn't doubt coming from the caving world you would wear a helmet. Rock climbing.. I should. In canyoneering my person experience is that I would talk someone into wearing an ankle brace before a helmet. In zion's with all the river sections I've had to carry a few people out but never because of loose rocks.

But for sure the next pictures I post I'll be looking like the Michelin Man.. Head to toe padding... But then you'll probably read about me dying from heat stroke ;)

Thank you, Derek, for, however reluctantly, allowing yourself to be to latest target of the helmet diatribes...

T

[outdoor love]

I do canyons without a helmet and will continue to. Tom whats up with the criticism? It is like when the missionaries show up and tell me there is a church in town. I say I know I make the decision not to go. Free country I think.

[ratagonia]

Ice, I hear what you are saying. Head injuries are different. Getting injured in a canyon, particularly a head injury, affects a whole lot of people in and out of the canyon. Those directly affected include group members, family members, SAR members, medical people, etc. Helmets are the easiest way to prevent a head injury. Yes, I know you have a right to not wear one. I get that. But dang, I have done my share of studying head injuries and I think I would rather be a quadriplegic or have many bones broken than have a serious closed head injury, and injury that is easily mitigated with a brain bucket. I am not sure that strong language in the arena of a head injury is too much. Again, head injuries are a different and insidious beast. (Yes, I chose that word carefully)

Mr. Card said it well.

[ocanler]

I wouldn't go biking or on a motorcycle without a helmet. I wouldn't go kayaking without a helmet. I never went caving without a helmet, and I would not go in a canyon without a helmet. I might recover from a broken arm, twisted ankle, broken wrist, but I sure want to keep the risk of head trauma to a minimum. I'd rather die than end up being a vegetable.

My 2 cents: Wear a helmet, a small inconvenience and a great insurance.

That being said: Nice pics about Mistery once I got over the skull shots!

[bshwakr]

I do canyons without a helmet and will continue to. Tom whats up with the criticism? It is like when the missionaries show up and tell me there is a church in town. I say I know I make the decision not to go. Free country I think.

Helmets are not an act of faith; their power to save lives is well documented.

k

[canyoncaver]

Helmets are not an act of faith; their power to save lives is well documented.

k

I have seen helmets save the lives of those that I love. That is why I have faith in them.

[MarmotOnARock]

I do canyons without a helmet and will continue to. Tom whats up with the criticism? It is like when the missionaries show up and tell me there is a church in town. I say I know I make the decision not to go. Free country I think.

Might as well say I do canyons on garden hoses using your belt loop on harnesses. The flagarant disregard for yourself, and havoc you could cause on others(in canyon, rescuers, etc) is absolutely hiliarious here.

It's like the article on Reuters a few weeks back, where one state was getting ready to repeal their "helmets not required on motorcycles law", so a bunch of bikers held a protest rally, not wearing helmets, and one subsequently crashed and died, because well he wasnt wearing a helmet.

It's even funnier that you are attacking Tom for giving you crap about this that just further proves your absurdity.

[Brian in SLC]

It's like the article on Reuters a few weeks back, where one state was getting ready to repeal their "helmets not required on motorcycles law", so a bunch of bikers held a protest rally, not wearing helmets, and one subsequently crashed and died, because well he wasnt wearing a helmet.

Reminds me of the folks that protested the ban on base jumping in Yosemite where the person died base jumping El Cap. Kinda puts a damper on the protest.

I've done canyons sans helmet. And, I still occasionally climb without one. But, more and more, I wear one 'cause it makes sense and its easy to do so.

Still, if I forgot my helmet and showed up at a canyon, I'd probably still do it.

[Jaxx]

Nice report. Mystery is a good canyon. I love the second to last rap. I don't know why exactly. Mystery was my second canyon and it really got me hooked on canyoneering. I don't know why there is all the hate on Mystery. Is it the best. Certainly not IMO. But a fun canyon.

Thanks for posting the pics!

[ratagonia]

Reminds me of the folks that protested the ban on base jumping in Yosemite where the person died base jumping El Cap. Kinda puts a damper on the protest.

I've done canyons sans helmet. And, I still occasionally climb without one. But, more and more, I wear one 'cause it makes sense and its easy to do so.

Still, if I forgot my helmet and showed up at a canyon, I'd probably still do it.

Kinda put a damper on the people climbing "Space" too.

I've forgotten my helmet, too. You won't see (recent) pictures of it, though. And I sure do feel naked standing down there at the bottom of the gravity well, all those missiles perched above me...

T

[derekholmes]

I do canyons without a helmet and will continue to. Tom whats up with the criticism? It is like when the missionaries show up and tell me there is a church in town. I say I know I make the decision not to go. Free country I think.

Thanks my thoughts exactly. Well said.

[spinesnaper]

Thanks my thoughts exactly. Well said.

I volunteer once a month at a County Hospital in Los Angeles. I see an extremely large number of individuals after head trauma. They can't hold jobs, they can barely remember what bus brought them to the hospital. Until you have seen the permanent effects of these injuries, it can be difficult to understand how devastating these injuries are. The brain does not take a joke. So free choice? Not on a motorcycle. It is important to understand how one fits into a community and the impact of these preventable disabilities on the credibility of that community. Not that we are going to settle this here. There will be those who wear a helmet and those who don't. We call that natural selection.

Ken

[Scott Card]

I think, based on this discussion, I will start to ask the many boys who date my daughters, "do you wear a helmet while canyoneering?" The answer will tell me a lot about how they will regard others including my daughter(s). The same could be said of motorcycles, climbing...etc.

Yep, free country with the exception of those dang consequences of violating the law, natural laws included.

[ratagonia]

I think, based on this discussion, I will start to ask the many boys who date my daughters, "do you wear a helmet while canyoneering?" The answer will tell me a lot about how they will regard others including my daughter(s). The same could be said of motorcycles, climbing...etc.

Yep, free country with the exception of those dang consequences of violating the law, natural laws included.

C'mon guyz, you're being rough on Derek. The gal in his icon picture is obviously his sister, and he really has nothing and no one to live for..

Tom

[hank moon]

helmet discussions...

safety people frame it as a safety issue (personal and public)
freedom people frame it as a freedom issue (idealism)

It's hard to argue with the freedom-biased points, but I have yet to hear a good safety argument for not wearing a helmet while canyoneering. Anyone?

[Brian in SLC]

...but I have yet to hear a good safety argument for not wearing a helmet. Anyone?

I have not great arguments.

When its really hot out, I don't want a helmet (or anything) on my head to overheat me.

If I'm in a super narrow confined space, a helmet sometimes takes up too much room. Of course, that's a pretty unlikely situation as I avoid those spaces like the plague.

I do seem to hit my head more on rock when I'm wearing a helmet. Just not used to the space it takes, I suppose.

I wear mine more and more often. But, I still rock climb without it from time to time. Especially on a top rope.

[hank moon]

they are good arguments...for specific circumstances. I also do not wear a helmet 100% of the time for some of the reasons you have listed. i edited my original post to make it canyon-specific.

I have not great arguments.

When its really hot out, I don't want a helmet (or anything) on my head to overheat me.

If I'm in a super narrow confined space, a helmet sometimes takes up too much room. Of course, that's a pretty unlikely situation as I avoid those spaces like the plague.

I do seem to hit my head more on rock when I'm wearing a helmet. Just not used to the space it takes, I suppose.

I wear mine more and more often. But, I still rock climb without it from time to time. Especially on a top rope.

[ratagonia]

helmet discussions...

safety people frame it as a safety issue (personal and public)
freedom people frame it as a freedom issue (idealism)

It's hard to argue with the freedom-based points, but I have yet to hear a good safety argument for not wearing a helmet while canyoneering. Anyone?

I can argue with the freedom-based point... (it's a talent, I know)...

The Freedom-based argument only works with a willing suspension of the knowledge that we are all connected together, in some way. So, yes, your actions effect me; but mostly, they effect people closely related to you. That you might want to express your appreciation for by wearing a helmet.

But, yes, it is your choice. I fully support your right to make your decision about what you wear. Even when you make the "wrong" decision.

Tom