B.L.M. sign to be installed in Birch Hollow

[backofbeyond]

I received this E-mail today from Kanab B.L.M. This is a small opportunity to be involved in the sign that will be put in Birch August 3rd. Get your feed back to me as soon as possible and I will forward the well thought out comments to them. Thanks for your Help


"Hi James,

In an effort to get the word out about Birch Hollow, BLM will be installing
a sign or two in the area on August 3rd. At that point, the signs will be
temporary, so we can change the wording if needed. Tom Christensen and I
are working up some draft language, and I thought that based on your
interests, you might have some suggestions. Do you want to have any input
on what goes on the signs?"

[Iceaxe]

DO NOT PROCEED - GIANT DEADLY SNAKES BEYOND THIS POINT!

And if that doesn't work.......

Exactly what information is this signage supposed to convey? warning? ethics? routes?

What's the deal? The BLM have a little extra cash burning a hole in their pocket?

How about.... please do not clog our wildness experience with signs?

[backofbeyond]

I would assume ethics and etiquette would be a good place to start. I also imagine that it would be off the road not in the W.S.A. I agree with your sentiment Signs in wilderness piss me off to but so do people that don't have a respect for wilderness therefore making a need for signs. Therefore I can also assume that if people knew how to treat Wilderness there would be no need for the sign.

[bshwakr]

__

[Iceaxe]

That was tongue in cheek....

I'm more interested in what kind of information the BLM hopes to convey? and where are the signs to be located?

That Birch is getting signs is kinda vague, provide a little more info and perhaps I can provide something constructive....

[Iceaxe]

As a starting point I would probably look at the kiosk the BLM recently placed in the Sandthrax Campground with regards to the Irish Canyons.

http://www.bogley.com/forum/showthread.php?36752

[backofbeyond]

[

How about.... please do not clog our wildness experience with signs?

What is the difference Between " Shane's Irish Canyons" Sign and the Birch Sign?

[bshwakr]

__

[backofbeyond]

Well, offhand, I would say the Birch sign should be attached to an outhouse rather than some lame kiosk.

k

[backofbeyond]

So the back story for the sign is; B.L.M. has sent a letter to guides indicating that they need to limit group size and separate group descents by 30 mins. The problem is not guides, it is large groups that are unaware of Mexican Spotted Owls in the canyon. It' is also people who leave trash, graffiti ect... it is also the people who do not use the correct approach and are leaving social trails. These groups are unaware of the regulation and if the conditions in Birch do not improve it could be disastrous. We as a community need to understand that land managers are suppose to manage the Land, the resource, the watershed, the animal's ect... Recreation comes later down the line.

[ratagonia]

I received this E-mail today from Kanab B.L.M. This is a small opportunity to be involved in the sign that will be put in Birch August 3rd. Get your feed back to me as soon as possible and I will forward the well thought out comments to them. Thanks for your Help


"Hi James,

In an effort to get the word out about Birch Hollow, BLM will be installing
a sign or two in the area on August 3rd. At that point, the signs will be
temporary, so we can change the wording if needed. Tom Christensen and I
are working up some draft language, and I thought that based on your
interests, you might have some suggestions. Do you want to have any input
on what goes on the signs?"

It might be a help, James, if you would say who you are in the real world, why you were sent an email, etc. so that we'all might know who we are talking to.

You might include as to why people should send their comments to you, rather than directly to Tom Christensen at the BLM.

Tom

[ratagonia]

DO NOT PROCEED - GIANT DEADLY SNAKES BEYOND THIS POINT!

And if that doesn't work.......

Exactly what information is this signage supposed to convey? warning? ethics? routes?

What's the deal? The BLM have a little extra cash burning a hole in their pocket?

How about.... please do not clog our wildness experience with signs?

POISON IVY AREA

usually works pretty well, too.

[Iceaxe]

What is the difference Between " Shane's Irish Canyons" Sign and the Birch Sign?

Let's get one thing clear right up front.... that is NOT my sign in the Irish Canyons.

The BLM asked if they could use information from my website for their Kiosk and and I granted them permission. I pointed you to the thread so you could see what other BLM offices have done and are doing.... I thought it might be of help...

Honestly I could careless if there is a sign or not.... if someone believes a sign will stop vandalism and graffiti good luck with that....

Now on to my next rant....

Canyoneers have been descending Birch is herds for over 10 years..... The Mexican Spotted Owl would not have established residence in Birch if canyoneering was an issue to the owls.... the only one who has an issue with owls and canyoneers are land managers.... and that is word for word from an expert on Mexican Spotted Owls.

[Pelon1]

The Mexican Spotted Owl would not have established residence in Birch if canyoneering was an issue to the owls.... the only one who has an issue with owls and canyoneers are land managers.... and that is word for word from an expert on Mexican Spotted Owls.

Not sure why its a big deal anyway they are probably illegal and growing pot

[Iceaxe]

it is also the people who do not use the correct approach and are leaving social trails. These groups are unaware of the regulation and if the conditions in Birch do not improve it could be disastrous. We as a community need to understand that land managers are suppose to manage the Land, the resource, the watershed, the animal's ect... Recreation comes later down the line.

If the Kanab BLM really wants to get something done they need to contact the half dozen sources from which 90% of all beta orientates and tell them in which direction and what ethics they would like to see established for a particular canyon. That is what other area land managers have done with excellent results.... I've always been amazed that the Zion area land managers march to a totally different drumer than the rest of the state and somehoe manage to do less with more than just about everyone else.

[Scott Card]

Wait, aren't we the animals the managers are managing?

And I thought the Mexican Spotted Owls were only in Pine Creek. And who let them in the country anyway? Aren't there laws and fences for these sorts of owls?

[Iceaxe]

Not sure why its a big deal anyway they are probably illegal and growing pot

[backofbeyond]

It might be a help, James, if you would say who you are in the real world, why you were sent an email, etc. so that we'all might know who we are talking to.

You might include as to why people should send their comments to you, rather than directly to Tom Christensen at the BLM.

Tom

In the real world I am guy who asked the B.L.M. to come to a canyoneering conference and express their concerns to recreational canyoneers after they had sent the new regulations out to guides. I do not see the guides as the problem but large groups who have no etiquette or ethics. I have had little contact with them beyond that, I can only assume that they sent me the e-mail because I have shown some sort of interest in keeping restrictions off of canyons.

You are right Tom, People can send there comments directly to Tom Christensen.

[oldno7]

X2

[oldno7]

You might include as to why people should send their comments to you, rather than directly to Tom Christensen at the BLM.

That is indeed VERY odd!!!!

If you represent a large group, that might be another thing, but to ask bogleyites to send responses to you, ODD!!!

I have no idea who back of beyond is.