Zion NP - Subway - July 30

[Osiris]

I apparently missed signing up for a permit for the Subway (Top down route) by mere seconds for July 30th. I am still planning on being at the permit desk early Friday morning to see if I can get one, but I've never done the Subway before and I've never had to get a permit before. Approximately what time should I be at the desk for the best chance of success on Friday morning? If I am unable to obtain a permit what other routes would you suggest for an amateur canyoneer? Also, I will get to Zion fairly late Thursday night, where should I look for a place to camp? Any other thoughts?

Also, I'm looking to find some buddies who wouldn't mind me tagging along on some routes. Thanks for any replies. Anthony

[xxnitsuaxx]

No later than 1130 Thursday night. For reals.

[Deathcricket]

I have shown up at 4:30-5:00 and not been skunked twice. That gives me a 22% success ratio. But yeah there is always someone there around midnight waiting. Usually a person who flew in from Europe on their vacation and needs it way worse than I do.

Get Orderville as a backup plan.

[Iceaxe]

Get Orderville as a backup plan.

Orderville Gulch
http://climb-utah.com/Zion/orderville.htm

Also consider....

Zion Narrows - Top Down
http://climb-utah.com/Zion/narrows.htm

If you are solo or a small group combining either Narrows or Orderville with the ZAC shuttle deal going on right makes for a bargain and great trip in my humble opinion. I hate cleaning up that shuttle at the end of the day....

Zion Shuttle Deal
http://www.bogley.com/forum/showthread.php?57025