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Thread: Choprock information

  1. #1

    Choprock information

    After having been in the area and explored around many non-technical canyons, I'd like to get into upper Neon and S Fork of Choprock. After reading extensively on the canyons, I have a pretty good idea of what I'm up against. The problems that I'm running into is that I do not own of of my own climbing gear and don't feel like buying it all for one trip. I can borrow much of what would be needed for the climbing side of things. As for the rest of the gear, I've been stocking up. Just bought a dry bag backpack, a medium sized dry bag, a 4/3 full wetsuit and a 2mm shorty along with 2mm socks (may buy another pair). I also have much of the emergency "possibles" bag stuff. Now I just need info. What time of year would people recommend as the best or most likely to be easier for these canyons? It seems like late summer possibly? Also, I'd like to go with someone who's done the canyon if possible. Do groups ever form on this forum? My climbing friends have been far too wishy-washy on committing to doing this trip. Also, what level of upclimbing is there in this canyon, 5.?? approx? Sometimes I read that there is no upclimbing in this canyon and sometimes I read that there is one section. Side note, I am in very good physical condition and extremely eager to get through these canyons!!

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  3. #2
    Quote Originally Posted by mcweyen View Post
    What time of year would people recommend as the best or most likely to be easier for these canyons? It seems like late summer possibly?
    usually late april-late may, or mid-september to early october. though people certainly do them much more often than that. neon especially.

    Quote Originally Posted by mcweyen View Post
    Do groups ever form on this forum?
    absolutely. there was just a big group that gathered in zion. usually not too hard to find partners. however, it's usually recommended to stick around and participate on the forums so people can kinda figure out who and what you are about. for instance, have you ever done a technical canyon before?

    Quote Originally Posted by mcweyen View Post
    Also, what level of upclimbing is there in this canyon, 5.?? approx?
    it varies considerably. in neon, it can be very easy, or there can be a fairly difficult keeper pothole. but these aren't "climbing" moves that can be rated. they are canyoneering obstacles, and they can be fairly straightforward, or very dangerous, depending on your skill level. if the water is high in choprock, the upclimb is something like an offwidth flared out at the bottom, narrow above your head bizarre move. usually requires someone strong enough to stem out using just their arms until they can get high enough to get their feet on the walls too. it's another step up in difficulty from neon.

  4. #3
    Content Provider Emeritus ratagonia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mcweyen View Post
    After having been in the area and explored around many non-technical canyons, I'd like to get into upper Neon and S Fork of Choprock. After reading extensively on the canyons, I have a pretty good idea of what I'm up against. The problems that I'm running into is that I do not own of of my own climbing gear and don't feel like buying it all for one trip. I can borrow much of what would be needed for the climbing side of things. As for the rest of the gear, I've been stocking up. Just bought a dry bag backpack, a medium sized dry bag, a 4/3 full wetsuit and a 2mm shorty along with 2mm socks (may buy another pair). I also have much of the emergency "possibles" bag stuff. Now I just need info. What time of year would people recommend as the best or most likely to be easier for these canyons? It seems like late summer possibly? Also, I'd like to go with someone who's done the canyon if possible. Do groups ever form on this forum? My climbing friends have been far too wishy-washy on committing to doing this trip. Also, what level of upclimbing is there in this canyon, 5.?? approx? Sometimes I read that there is no upclimbing in this canyon and sometimes I read that there is one section. Side note, I am in very good physical condition and extremely eager to get through these canyons!!
    You are missing an important attribute for completing Choprock - experience in technical canyons.

    It is difficult to talk about the difficulty of the canyon to one who has not experienced a difficult technical canyon, or one who has not even experienced much in the way of technical canyons. We recently had some fellas show up who did a very good job of one of the most-difficult climby-type canyons as their first canyon (Sandthrax); yet became substantially cold-challenged in a beginner canyon because they lacked any understanding of this sport called canyoneering, and the variety of problems canyons can throw at you.

    The two fellows who perished in Choprock were missing an important attribute for completing Choprock - experience in technical canyons.

    Having the right gear would put you ahead of those two unfortunate individuals. But not far ahead.

    I hope you have read this: http://climb-utah.com/Escalante/chop1.htm and this: http://www.canyoneeringusa.com/utah/esca/chop.php

    So...

    Welcome to the world of canyoneering. People are friendly here. Hook up with some people here or elsewhere and find out how it is done. In a year or two, you will be perhaps ready for a challenging canyon such as Choprock aka Kaleidoscope.

    Tom

  5. #4
    I've never done a technical canyon as I live too far away to get a chance at them. Have done a small amount of rock climbing. I got the feel for stemming and chimneying when in some of the canyons earlier this year (I did Zebra, Tunnel Slot, lower part of Neon, some of Ringtail to what appeared to be a possible keeper and I was alone at that point so I didn't test it, Brimstone to the too narrow for humans section, Spooky and Peek-a-boo).
    I'd like to avoid high water in Choprock, which I gather may make Neon's keeper much harder. Would August be a lot more likely time to have low water in Choprock? I don't want to take vacation time only to be denied by bad weather.

  6. #5
    I've done extensive reading on the canyon and think that I could make it through with the right group. Good timing would help substantially as well. Low water is an important part of what I'm aiming for. Sandthrax is soooooo far beyond what I'd dream of doing. As for temperature based issues, I've read that a 4/3 full with a 2mm shorty in late summer would be good to go for sure. Safety is key, I agree completely.

  7. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by mcweyen View Post
    I've done extensive reading on the canyon and think that I could make it through with the right group. Good timing would help substantially as well. Low water is an important part of what I'm aiming for. Sandthrax is soooooo far beyond what I'd dream of doing. As for temperature based issues, I've read that a 4/3 full with a 2mm shorty in late summer would be good to go for sure. Safety is key, I agree completely.
    I don't think anyone is saying you can't do it. It just that no one here is going to encourage you to go for it. It is one thing to be bold and its another thing to be foolish. Unfortunately these canyons are unforgiving in unpredictable ways. Cold, dehydration, lack of technique all conspire against the unprepared. Tom is politely suggesting that you would benefit from more experience based on your questions. Those canyons are going to be there for a very long time. We are here because we love being in these canyons. None of us are interested in reading about someone getting in over their head in a canyon. Poke around on these sites and carefully read about canyoneers who got into trouble. Shane' website climb-utah.com, Tom's website:http://canyoneeringusa.com/utah/index.htm, as well as this one has enough cautionary tales. Bottom line is be safe and consider partnering up with some experienced canyoneers before taking on the R rated canyons.

    Ken

  8. #7
    Content Provider Emeritus ratagonia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mcweyen View Post
    I've done extensive reading on the canyon and think that I could make it through with the right group. Good timing would help substantially as well. Low water is an important part of what I'm aiming for. Sandthrax is soooooo far beyond what I'd dream of doing. As for temperature based issues, I've read that a 4/3 full with a 2mm shorty in late summer would be good to go for sure. Safety is key, I agree completely.
    I have read Road & Track for several years now, and watched carefully as my Dad has driven me to soccer games the last couple years. I do really well on all the driving video games, beating my friends by a large margin. I'd like to compete in the Indy 500 - do you think I am ready?

    No really, I already have a Nomex suit, the local pizza place will sponsor me, so yeah, I think I'm ready. Don't you?

    I don't need to get pole position, I'll be happy to just finish in the money. I sent in my application, but I had to fudge a few things a bit - all for a good cause. Now I just need to round up 500k for a car...

    "no".

    Tom

    ps. you didn't mention a helmet... you would always score points with me if you mention the helmet... 'jes sayin'

  9. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by mcweyen View Post
    I've done extensive reading on the canyon and think that I could make it through with the right group. Good timing would help substantially as well. Low water is an important part of what I'm aiming for. Sandthrax is soooooo far beyond what I'd dream of doing. As for temperature based issues, I've read that a 4/3 full with a 2mm shorty in late summer would be good to go for sure. Safety is key, I agree completely.
    i'm not sure there's a whole lot of folks who would be jumping at the opportunity to "take you" through choprock as your first technical canyon, no offense. maybe it would be no big deal. maybe it wouldn't. there are lots of great canyons that you could hook up with people that are much less committing and much less "dangerous" where you could figure out what your cold tolerance is, and what you can handle in basic canyoneering situations. the black hole, for one, would be a great place to start. and if you wanted to meet some folks and do the black hole, your odds of finding partners would go much higher...

  10. #9
    Black Hole does look pretty awesome! I'd be willing to make a trip of Black Hole and then Neon to start things out. I'm still pretty confident that with a couple/few experienced canyoneers, I could make it through Choprock readily in non-extreme conditions (would rather not test extreme).

    As for the helmet, it's unquestionably on my list before I head down. So are some 5.10's and some neoprene gloves.

    To the tune of experience with conditions, I'm an outdoorsy nut. I've raced road bikes for years (even against Lance), backpacked a lot, some spelunking, kayaking, rafting, skiing, and the list goes on and on, but none of that completely prepares a guy for a new sport (technical canyoneering).

    So far this forum has really impressed me!! You guys clearly get to have a lot of rad adventures!

    And, humorously... my brother-in-law used to actually be a Nascar driver

  11. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by mcweyen View Post
    And, humorously... my brother-in-law used to actually be a Nascar driver
    I think Shane just spotted...

  12. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian in SLC View Post
    I think Shane just spotted...


    I have raced a lot of different vehicules.... but I never raced NASCAR taxi-cabs.

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  13. #12
    Content Provider Emeritus ratagonia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mcweyen View Post
    Black Hole does look pretty awesome! I'd be willing to make a trip of Black Hole and then Neon to start things out. I'm still pretty confident that with a couple/few experienced canyoneers, I could make it through Choprock readily in non-extreme conditions (would rather not test extreme).

    As for the helmet, it's unquestionably on my list before I head down. So are some 5.10's and some neoprene gloves.

    To the tune of experience with conditions, I'm an outdoorsy nut. I've raced road bikes for years (even against Lance), backpacked a lot, some spelunking, kayaking, rafting, skiing, and the list goes on and on, but none of that completely prepares a guy for a new sport (technical canyoneering).

    So far this forum has really impressed me!! You guys clearly get to have a lot of rad adventures!

    And, humorously... my brother-in-law used to actually be a Nascar driver
    Neoprene gloves are not so popular because they work very poorly when rappelling. As in dangerous-poorly.

    Atlas gardening gloves work very well, though they are not particularly long-lasting.

    http://canyoneeringusa.com/shop/prod...2&cat=0&page=1

    Good to hear you would acquiesce to doing two easy canyons before proceeding to a difficult canyon. Sporting of you...

    Tom

  14. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by mcweyen View Post
    I'm still pretty confident that with a couple/few experienced canyoneers, I could make it through Choprock
    I have no doubt with the right partners you would make it through Choprock.... but being led (guided) through a slot is a totally different animal than doing a slot.... just sayin'

    Not that there is anything wrong with leading or following.... just apples and oranges.

  15. #14
    I'm fine with being guided through as it's a great way to learn and my main goal is to get to see and experience the area. Leading may be an eventual goal. Looks like an addicting hobby!

  16. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by mcweyen View Post
    I'm fine with being guided through as it's a great way to learn
    clearly. what we're suggesting is that you'll have a very hard time finding anyone willing to guide you...

  17. #16
    Content Provider Emeritus ratagonia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CarpeyBiggs View Post
    clearly. what we're suggesting is that you'll have a very hard time finding anyone willing to guide you...
    At Zion Adventure Company we have discussed guiding Choprock, and decided no matter the abilities of the client, it is too much of a canyon to be safely guided.

    Tom

  18. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by ratagonia View Post
    At Zion Adventure Company we have discussed guiding Choprock, and decided no matter the abilities of the client, it is too much of a canyon to be safely guided.

    Tom
    Yeah, can't be good for business if the client might end up as fish bait in a canyon.

    Ken

  19. #18
    Hmm, not what I was hoping to hear, oh well. Black Hole looks like a very good alternate as it's an extremely gorgeous canyon, as is Neon. Really wanting to do Choprock someday! There's a company in Escalante that guides Choprock as part of a 4 day, multiple canyon trip. Can't really dump that much $ on it though.

  20. #19
    I'm still pretty confident that with a couple/few experienced canyoneers, I could make it through Choprock readily in non-extreme conditions (would rather not test extreme).


    About six years back I was sitting in a really boring class and had time to write down the list of time I had done descents of canyons, I was up to 83 including do-overs of my favorites and taking many new people to learn the sport over the years , I have done between 10 and 12 every year since then. I have all the gear and then some. I am getting close and almost there to thinking I am ready to do Choprock and Baker. Just because you think you can does not mean you should. I think what people here are saying is work your way up to it..

  21. #20
    Content Provider Emeritus ratagonia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mcweyen View Post
    Hmm, not what I was hoping to hear, oh well. Black Hole looks like a very good alternate as it's an extremely gorgeous canyon, as is Neon. Really wanting to do Choprock someday! There's a company in Escalante that guides Choprock as part of a 4 day, multiple canyon trip. Can't really dump that much $ on it though.
    I doubt it.

    "Choprock" is a canyon complex with several forks. The most interesting technical canyon is the South Fork, also known as: Moe Slot, Kaleidoscope, Choprock Slot, Chopslot, etc. The North Fork is also said to be of technical interest, but choked with Poison Ivy. Tyvek suits recommended. I have not been there. The Main Fork is non-technical in nature, and probably what someone is willing to guide.

    Or provide a link and prove me wrong.

    "I think what people here are saying is work your way up to it..."

    In canyoneering, we have a saying: "A fool and his life are soon parted".

    "Experienced Outdoorspersons" are the most dangerous of people. "Experienced Outdoorspersons" dying in canyons is bad for the sport. Please do not do this. Or have to chop your arm off. We have seen too much of this lately.

    But, welcome to the sport. As stated, with some application of your abilities to learning the sport, Kaleidoscope is within your grasp in a couple of years. And the riches available in the meantime are wondrous.

    Tom

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