Which canyoneering course in Zion?

[maarten.1975]

Hello all of you,

While reading the posts about canyoneering, I have the idea some of you are very experienced in canyoneering and as well live around the Zion area
That is why I want to ask for your help about choosing a coanyoneering course (and all tips & tricks are welcome as well of course).

At the moment I'm planning my upcoming holiday in Utah and Arizona in October. I'll be visiting Zion for sure, so many places I still want to see. Since hiking (in several terrains) is my only experience, I'm thinking about doing a canyoneering course to learn some technical skills. I was wondering about your opinions on which canyoneering course is 'the best' (as far as best exists) in or around Zion, or which one not to take (preferrably with a reason).

I've so far found the following organisations giving beginners-courses:
- Zion Adventure Company
- Zion Rock & Mountain Guides
- Zion Mountain School

Some organisations give 3-day beginners-courses, which is something I prefer above a 1-day course. (Or do I see this incorrectly?)

As well it may be good to know that I'll be travelling just by myself. I've already seen on a course this may be a problem, that is why I mention it. I'm hoping to be able to join another group (or find an affordable 1-on-1 guide).

Well, I think I made clear what I am planning on, and I would love to hear your comments and advices on this. Thanks in advance! And many greetz from Holland!

Maarten

[Felicia]

I suggest Zion Adventure Company. I've had only positive experience with them.

[Deathcricket]

I honestly would not do a beginners course, especially if you are alone. Don't get me wrong the courses are excellent and pretty much any one you went with would be awesome. But they are soo expensive and you would not benefit from all the knowledge they could provide. If you had a big group and could balance the cost load it would be a different story. My advice would be to just learn to rappel where you are, tie some knots (figure eight and clove hitch), basic self rescue stuff, and rope retrieval information.Then just tag along with another group and offer to carry ropes or buy a round of beers afterwards. Puttong one more guy in a group is no big deal and most people would be happy to do it. Hit up an easy canyon, nothing too technical until you know what you're getting into and what your skill level is.

[canyoncaver]

Hey Maarten,

My wife and I are planning on doing some canyoneering in Zion this October. We will be there at least one and maybe two different weekends and will be taking some caving friends on their first canyoneering trip. If the dates work out you would be welcome to join us for a couple of canyons. Send me a PM with your dates and we'll see if it works out. We also may have gear that you can borrow.

This is not to discourage you too much from the courses (I also am a fan of ZAC), but they are expensive. If you want to save some $$$ but still learn some things about safe and efficient canyoneering give me a shout.

[spinesnaper]

But they are soo expensive and you would not benefit from all the knowledge they could provide.

You forget that he is bringing his mighty Euros. Every thing here looks cheap with the exchange rate.

I personally like private guiding situations. I have gone with both Zion Adventure Center and Zion Rock and Mountain Guides. There are some style differences. However, I would try to get a day of basics and then be guided through Water Canyon on the second day. Also for Fall dates, you might broaden your horizon and look into Excursions of the Escalante. I just had a great two days of Advanced canyoneering with them. Here is the link for the trip report: http://www.bogley.com/forum/showthre...s-of-Escalante

Ken

[dude9478]

My wife and I did a 1 day course at ZAC(about a 10 hour day). It was great and not too $$. I've never been to the others on your list though.

[CarpeyBiggs]

another shout out for ZAC. couple of regulars on this board are guides for them, and if you are looking to get a high-value beginners course where you LEARN to canyoneer instead of simply being guided, they're a great choice.

i also know eric over at www.reddesertadventure.com and he is a great guide, but i'm not sure if they do the three day course.

[ratagonia]

another shout out for ZAC. couple of regulars on this board are guides for them, and if you are looking to get a high-value beginners course where you LEARN to canyoneer instead of simply being guided, they're a great choice.

I also know eric over at www.reddesertadventure.com and he is a great guide, but i'm not sure if they do the three day course.

Thanks Dan.

I am a guide at ZAC, and I think we have a good program. We are the biggest game in town, so you have a better chance of tying into a course with other people with us. I personally believe people learn better with other students in the class, rather than one on one. You can use those mighty Euros to buy into a 3-day course, but you could also buy into a One Day Course, and then go do the canyons that gives you access to (Subway, Orderville, Keyhole, Pine Creek, etc.); and come back later for a One Day Progressive if you want more of the good stuff.

Context is important to learning skills - context is acquired by doing canyons.

We run more One-Day courses than Three-Day courses.

Tom

[maarten.1975]

Hello again all of you, first I wanna thank the people above for their reply and input.
and indeed, I am bringing the mighty Euro (hahaha, I had to laugh when reading that)
the current exchange rate is indeed quite positive for me, but... we have Greece
their situation may change things soon.... and we have some more (financially seen) problematic countries in Europe.
Dont know what will happen the next coming months.

But oke, back to my question. I am indeed more looking for a course then a guided tour. I wanna learn to independently navigate through canyons, to look further then the currently accessable areas and experience more of what mother nature has to offer. So far I've only done (multiple-day) hikes. I

[moab mark]

[QUOTE=maarten.1975;459343]Hello again all of you, first I wanna thank the people above for their reply and input.
and indeed, I am bringing the mighty Euro (hahaha, I had to laugh when reading that)
the current exchange rate is indeed quite positive for me, but... we have Greece
their situation may change things soon.... and we have some more (financially seen) problematic countries in Europe.
Dont know what will happen the next coming months.

But oke, back to my question. I am indeed more looking for a course then a guided tour. I wanna learn to independently navigate through canyons, to look further then the currently accessable areas and experience more of what mother nature has to offer. So far I've only done (multiple-day) hikes. I

[spinesnaper]

Maarten

I am now into my fourth year as a canyoneer. I typically get out for three or four trips a year living in Los Angeles. I came to this activity with backpacking, rock climbing and mountaineering experience. In addition to my trips, I have also spent two or three days each of those years taking private training programs most recently with Jim Clery. The community here knows him as a very solid canyoneer and upstanding individual.

He made a very intelligent statement, the gist of which is that he feels that in terms of the complexity of skills to be mastered, canyoneering is comparable to mountaineering. It is often said that solid rock climbing skills can be mastered in a year but mountaineering skills takes 5 years. Now left out of this statement is that you can also go a life time and not master either skill set (and no, we don't need to debate regarding the oversimplification implied by these statements). Yet this comparison does suggest the difference in complexity in the two activities.

I agree with Jim's statement regarding the inherent complexity of canyoneering. That is a long winded way of saying that developing those working canyoneering skills can't be had in a one day or three day canyoneering course. Tom is right. Get the skills you need to begin to safely experience the canyon environments. Spend a month and the range of canyons you will be able to operate in will be profoundly broader. However, even with a limited skill set that you might gain from one, two or three days of canyoneering instruction, I really don't think you will be disappointed with where the journey will take you. The first and foremost skill you need to master though is to not put yourself or your loved ones in a situation that is beyond your or their skill or comfort level.

Thankfully the canyoneering community does a great job in sharing information to help you decide what canyons will be appropriate for your newly acquired skills.

Ken