New Rappel in Pine Creek Zion, June 13th, 2011??

[Jermung]

I've heard a rumor the bolts are back. Something about a rescue over the weekend and the NPS needing to rig a haul system. This leads me to believe the bolts in question had a purpose the last time they were placed and will continue to have a purpose.

[MarmotOnARock]

Rescue? You got anymore info on that? I couldnt find anything on the interwebs.

Also I was there 6/5 and didnt see these bolts or webbing.

[tdoughty]

My small team used these new anchors to bypass two large groups on the 4th that were stalled at the normal first drop. There's a pair of holes that indicate that these new anchors have been set, removed, and replaced at least once already.

[ratagonia]

My small team used these new anchors to bypass two large groups on the 4th that were stalled at the normal first drop. There's a pair of holes that indicate that these new anchors have been set, removed, and replaced at least once already.

You mean the downclimb drop, rather than the first rappel? How do these bolts help? Don't they provide an anchor for rappelling in the same space as the "normal first drop"?

T

T

[tdoughty]

No, I mean the initial pot hole and the entire normal first rap were completed from the new anchors, totally bypassing the the normal first set of anchors. (<100')

[ratagonia]

No, I mean the initial pot hole and the entire normal first rap were completed from the new anchors, totally bypassing the the normal first set of anchors. (<100')

Wow. That seems rather... well, I guess expedient if the normal stations were loaded with noobs...

T

[tdoughty]

You can go ahead and say it as, yes, it was rather, well...Rude on our part. The 4 of us were third up, still suited from our run thru Keyhole, and the team of 5 between us and the first team of 7 said go ahead and pass. The first team had a bunch of noobs in shorts and no shirts, and it was obvious that many of their team had minimal experience. They gave us attitude, and we returned the gesture by trying to blow on by them.

In the end it didn't work out and we spent over an hour waiting for them to rap into the cathedral. While the waiting was offset by checking out the beautiful surroundings, it was really awfull to watch, and painful to listen to, such a large group of imbeciles.

We eventually were able to pass them once we got into the sun and they sat shivering and trying to warm up.

[ratagonia]

You can go ahead and say it as, yes, it was rather, well...Rude on our part. The 4 of us were third up, still suited from our run thru Keyhole, and the team of 5 between us and the first team of 7 said go ahead and pass. The first team had a bunch of noobs in shorts and no shirts, and it was obvious that many of their team had minimal experience. They gave us attitude, and we returned the gesture by trying to blow on by them.

In the end it didn't work out and we spent over an hour waiting for them to rap into the cathedral. While the waiting was offset by checking out the beautiful surroundings, it was really awful to watch, and painful to listen to, such a large group of imbeciles.

We eventually were able to pass them once we got into the sun and they sat shivering and trying to warm up.

I have no problem with a little rudeness (especially tit for tat rudeness) and that was not where I was going. It just seemed bizarre to run a rope that far and then fight for the second part of the rappel...

Another good reason to be bizarre in Pine Creek starting times. 8 am? Sweet. 5 pm - have the canyon to yourself. How about 8 am AND 5 pm, with a run through Keyhole inbetween.

Tom

[ratagonia]

You can go ahead and say it as, yes, it was rather, well...Rude on our part. The 4 of us were third up, still suited from our run thru Keyhole, and the team of 5 between us and the first team of 7 said go ahead and pass. The first team had a bunch of noobs in shorts and no shirts, and it was obvious that many of their team had minimal experience. They gave us attitude, and we returned the gesture by trying to blow on by them.

In the end it didn't work out and we spent over an hour waiting for them to rap into the cathedral. While the waiting was offset by checking out the beautiful surroundings, it was really awfull to watch, and painful to listen to, such a large group of imbeciles.

We eventually were able to pass them once we got into the sun and they sat shivering and trying to warm up.

Also, meat anchors are great for blowing by noobs - kinda blows their minds, and lets them know you know what you are doing and they don't.

T

[Brian in SLC]

Also, meat anchors are great for blowing by noobs

Or, do what my climbing partner accidently did to me...and...downclimb that first crack bit past the first regular anchor. Too funny.

Its hard to share, especially with the new crew of folk out there. The "we were here first" crew, who, even though they're super slow, and, have little in the way of a clue, don't want to facilitate your moving past them. I see it especially out climbing, but, in canyons sometimes as well.

Should be part of the permit info to allow faster groups to play through. Safely, of course.

Its a tough deal.

Given the situation, heck, I'd almost be for an alternate anchor to rap past folks on. My guess is the tree anchor is still up on the canyon right? Worth leavin' a sling on...sometimes...

[ratagonia]

Or, do what my climbing partner accidently did to me...and...downclimb that first crack bit past the first regular anchor. Too funny.

Its hard to share, especially with the new crew of folk out there. The "we were here first" crew, who, even though they're super slow, and, have little in the way of a clue, don't want to facilitate your moving past them. I see it especially out climbing, but, in canyons sometimes as well.

Should be part of the permit info to allow faster groups to play through. Safely, of course.

Its a tough deal.

Given the situation, heck, I'd almost be for an alternate anchor to rap past folks on. My guess is the tree anchor is still up on the canyon right? Worth leavin' a sling on...sometimes...

Yeah, we used something up there on this trip: http://canyoneeringusa.com/rave/0703zion/index.htm

It was further away and harder to get to than I had thought (might be easier without snow), and the rope wouldn't pull first try (thanks Jason for going back and re-rigging). But there might be a better tree further along... but... bad to be walkin' that rim with noobie folks down below, prolly lacking helmets, etc... and... and... I hear the rap off some tree is a tad more than 100 feet, so it might not work out so well if'n you don't have extra rope for the Pine Creek.

Might I suggest, in this situation, charging back to the car for another round in Keyhole, allowing the noobs to poke their way along in Pine Creek and get out of the way. Heck, try upclimbing Keyhole - I hear it's been done...

Tom

[Brian in SLC]

Might I suggest, in this situation, charging back to the car for another round in Keyhole, allowing the noobs to poke their way along in Pine Creek and get out of the way. Heck, try upclimbing Keyhole - I hear it's been done...

Sans dead tree? That might be tough...?

Hard to be patient.