Ya Better Make Sure Your License Plate Is On Straight...

[bbennett]

Probably not the best idea to get out of your car during a traffic stop, but if you do, don't even think about asking what you got pulled over for.



Bountiful City (Utah) has now settled its part of a controversial lawsuit.

Bruce Harper who was tasered an estimated six to ten times in the spring of 2009. Harper was pulled over in May of that year for reportedly having a crooked license plate.Things quickly escalated and Harper was repeatedly tasered. More than sixty times, Harper was told by police to turn around.

More than a dozen times Harper asked, "What did I do?"

At one point, Harper even wanted to know, "Are you going to shoot me?"

Moments later, the tasering begins.

First, Harper is tasered while standing, then on the ground.

As his attorney, Mark Flores, now puts it,"It's an over-reaction to a perceived threat that did not exist."

So, Harper filed suit claiming the officers used excessive force.

Bountiful City now confirms that is has settled the matter,but neither Bountiful nor Harper's lawyer will say for how much.

The most disturbing part of the video comes after Harper is on the ground and the taser is pressed directly against him. Harper

[Deathcricket]

Hmmm.... This is actually a very interesting video for me. And I'm conflicted in several ways. On one hand I'm a big fan of people who say "F the police" and support his right to not be detained and harassed for something so stupid. Plus I don't like that the PoPo wanted to handcuff then search him for no reason. I would call that an unreasonable reason. But on the other hand I support the right of the cop to make sure the dude doesn't have weapon on him. Plus the citizen seemed a bit aggressive and demanding and very uncooperative. Obviously hiding something. So my thinking is:

1. The cop should have clearly stated his intentions. I pulled you over for x, I need to make sure you don't have any weapons on you, please consent to x. Being a bully and not giving a brief explanation and trying to diffuse the situation is a huge mistake.
2. The citizen should not have got out of his car and escalated the situation. He should have gotten back into his car when asked to. Walking towards a cop with a gun is a big no no.

Have to go with the cop on this one. but it's really a 60/40 kinda decision for me.

P.S. Hearing him scream like a girl was totally awesome though.

[CarpeyBiggs]

you can't fix stupid. but apparently, you can taser them and make them scream like a girl. what the %&^$ did he think would happen?

[gnwatts]

1. The cop should have clearly stated his intentions. I pulled you over for x, I need to make sure you don't have any weapons on you, please consent to x. Being a bully and not giving a brief explanation and trying to diffuse the situation is a huge mistake.
2. The citizen should not have got out of his car and escalated the situation. He should have gotten back into his car when asked to. Walking towards a cop with a gun is a big no no.

I agree.
However, the cop was pulling the guy over for the purpose trying to search the car. A crooked license plate? You gotta be kidding me.
If the cop would have discovered he was drunk, or wanted etc he would be a hero. That is why cops take the risk of pulling innocent people over that they have profiled. If nothing is found, and after the car is searched (Utah has some pretty disturbing rules about when they have the right to search a vehicle) most people would not want to file a report against the cop, they are just happy to get out of there. This guy was acting irrationally, the Bountiful cop was acting irrationally. He has the gun and the badge and the taser. And now Bountiful is out some cash. Seeing videos of cops like that makes me want to puke. I hope they fired his ass.

[bbennett]

Hmmm.... This is actually a very interesting video for me. And I'm conflicted in several ways. On one hand I'm a big fan of people who say "F the police" and support his right to not be detained and harassed for something so stupid. Plus I don't like that the PoPo wanted to handcuff then search him for no reason. I would call that an unreasonable reason. But on the other hand I support the right of the cop to make sure the dude doesn't have weapon on him. Plus the citizen seemed a bit aggressive and demanding and very uncooperative. Obviously hiding something. So my thinking is:

1. The cop should have clearly stated his intentions. I pulled you over for x, I need to make sure you don't have any weapons on you, please consent to x. Being a bully and not giving a brief explanation and trying to diffuse the situation is a huge mistake.
2. The citizen should not have got out of his car and escalated the situation. He should have gotten back into his car when asked to. Walking towards a cop with a gun is a big no no.

Have to go with the cop on this one. but it's really a 60/40 kinda decision for me.

P.S. Hearing him scream like a girl was totally awesome though.

I seem to agree with you far more often than I do not. You're absolutely correct... he should have stayed in his car, or gotten back in when told to do so, and why in the hell did he have his hand in his pocket when he got out? That's just asking for trouble. This guy was obviously a moran and if he had simply gotten back in his car when told to do so, he wouldn't have ended up screaming like a little bitch.

You're spot on with your point #1 about how the cop could have handled himself better. I couldn't agree more.

I'm leaning a little toward the cop on this one as well but I think this is a prime example of law enforcement being trigger happy with their tazers. Once back-up was on scene and they had him subdued, I really don't think there was any need to continue shocking the guy. Three cops on one dude and they're still deploying tazers... what's up with that?

[DOSS]

I seem to agree with you far more often than I do not. You're absolutely correct... he should have stayed in his car, or gotten back in when told to do so, and why in the hell did he have his hand in his pocket when he got out? That's just asking for trouble. This guy was obviously a moran and if he had simply gotten back in his car when told to do so, he wouldn't have ended up screaming like a little bitch.

You're spot on with your point #1 about how the cop could have handled himself better. I couldn't agree more.

I'm leaning a little toward the cop on this one as well but I think this is a prime example of law enforcement being trigger happy with their tazers. Once back-up was on scene and they had him subdued, I really don't think there was any need to continue shocking the guy. Three cops on one dude and they're still deploying tazers... what's up with that?

While what happened in front of the guys car may seem excessive we are unable to see what the guy was doing (resisting etc) so any judgements on the need to continue the tazer deployment is without basis.

In the end the guy got what was coming to him, the cop did not need to tell him why he was pulled over it is the cops job to protect himself from the perceived threat (guy who got out of his car and refuses to obey when he has a gun pointed at his chest is a threat on numerous counts). Until the threat is cleared there is no reason for the cop to attempt to explain himself. This should have been a simple traffic stop for a licence plate and the driver failed to remember that cops put themselves in harms way day in and day out and acting in a potentially threatening manner is going to get you detained physically at the least :)

[gnwatts]

This should have been a simple traffic stop for a licence plate .............

A crooked license plate? I have never heard of anyone getting pulled over for that. No wait, maybe one time in Tijuana.... That cop just wanted to search his car.
I agree, the guy is a moron, but the cop needs be held to a higher standard.
I don't care if the cop risks his life, that's his job. It's his chosen form of work. It doesn't mean we should rationaliize illegal activity on the cop's part. Yes, it is illegal to make up reasons to pull people over.
The fact the town settled out of court means, IMO, that they did not want to drag this sorry spectacle in front of the public view.
Cops should stop making up bogus reasons to pull people over. That is an outrage and a violation of our basic rights.

[bbennett]

A crooked license plate? I have never heard of anyone getting pulled over for that. No wait, maybe one time in Tijuana.... That cop just wanted to search his car.
I agree, the guy is a moron, but the cop needs be held to a higher standard.
I don't care if the cop risks his life, that's his job. It's his chosen form of work. It doesn't mean we should rationaliize illegal activity on the cop's part. Yes, it is illegal to make up reasons to pull people over.
The fact the town settled out of court means, IMO, that they did not want to drag this sorry spectacle in front of the public view.
Cops should stop making up bogus reasons to pull people over. That is an outrage and a violation of our basic rights.

[jman]

(Utah has some pretty disturbing rules about when they have the right to search a vehicle).

Source, please?

[gnwatts]

Personal experience. They may not be "official" rules, but my experience with Utah cops has been generally consistent on this matter. No where else am I afraid to get pulled over (again maybe Tijuana).
I have had 2 encounters on minor infractions where the Utah cop MADE UP reasons to search my car. None of the reasons had anything to do with the original stop. And these are only instances that happened to me personally, not counting times I have been a passenger and had to watch it happen to others.

[Felicia]

Of course there are rules for search: they are called Search and Seizure laws. The laws will vary depending on the jurisdiction and if it involves a civil or criminal issue.

Probable Cause (PC) is subjective.

I'm on my phone so I can't cross post right now. I posted an article on Monday in the General section that is pretty on point with this discussion. Will some pleas link for me as I will not get home for hours yet. Thanks

Again I will say: it is not enough to stay out of trouble. You need to also avoid the appearance of trouble.

[trackrunner]

I posted an article on Monday in the General section that is pretty on point with this discussion. Will some pleas link for me as I will not get home for hours yet.

was it this one on drug charges from a search overturned from last thursday.

http://www.bogley.com/forum/showthre...273#post458273

[Felicia]

Yes - thank you. Time flies when your getting ready for fun!

[Sombeech]

Stone cold idiot civilian, that is all. He deserves every shock that came out of that taser.

[mhambi]

He broke several of 'The Rules'.



(LANGUAGE WARNING!!!)

[Sombeech]

Flores said, "I think the fairest way to say it is he still has a fear of police officers."

So much fear that he'll stay in the damned vehicle next time?

[greyhair biker]

there's absolutely NO reason to get out of the car unless the officer TELLS you to get out. No exceptions. You do exactly what the officer says and 9 times out of 10 you will be MUCH better off.

[JP]

The time to argue isn't on the side of the road. Plead not guilty and take your issue to court. Do what is asked of you and you won't be running the chance of riding the lightning