Right Fork/Subway loop

[Furious George]

I've got a general question regarding the feasibility of a route I've worked up - some buddies and I want to do a challenging canyoneering adventure over three days.

Working off a map I was thinking we could start with Right Fork, give ourselves two days to do that. We'd then continue from the Right Fork bottom trailhead to the Left Fork Trailhead and hit the Subway from the bottom all the way to Wildcat Canyon Trail and back to our car.

We're relatively experienced, and all in good shape. Just wondering if there are any obvious obstacles I'm overlooking. Any thoughts?

[spinesnaper]

Are you planning to wait until the water levels have fallen? We know the water flow is high in the left fork. I wonder what the water flow is like in the right fork. Getting that subway permit might be your biggest challenge.

Ken

[ratagonia]

I've got a general question regarding the feasibility of a route I've worked up - some buddies and I want to do a challenging canyoneering adventure over three days.

Working off a map I was thinking we could start with Right Fork, give ourselves two days to do that. We'd then continue from the Right Fork bottom trailhead to the Left Fork Trailhead and hit the Subway from the bottom all the way to Wildcat Canyon Trail and back to our car.

We're relatively experienced, and all in good shape. Just wondering if there are any obvious obstacles I'm overlooking. Any thoughts?

Sounds like a fun adventure, and could be challenging. You sneak to the head of the Subway permit line, so you should not have a problem getting that permit. There will be restrictions on where you can camp near the bottom of the Right Fork, so your Up-Subway day might be longer than desirable. It is a bit of a hump getting back UP the Subway. Keyhole Falls for us required a "Crane Move", so I hope you have a Crane and a Dwarf among the people on the trip. It would take a minimum of 2 people to get a third person up into the Keyhole (though there might be logs available to make the upclimb easier).

http://www.canyoneeringusa.com/rave/0703zion/index4.htm

Tom

[bshwakr]

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[ratagonia]

I don't know, if it were me..... Both canyons, 1 car, less than 24 hours, appx. 30 miles. Park at the West Rim, descend the Right Fork Direct via Hammerhead (10.5 hours), at the confluence of the Right and Left Forks go right, through the Subway and exit up Russell Gulch, return via the Wildcat Canyon trail to your car at the West Rim.

K

Hammerhead will have a lot of snow for awhile, into July??

El Bushwhaquero likes travelling fast.

T

[bshwakr]

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[Scott P]

Do you have to get a permit for the Subway no more than the day before the hike? If so, would doing it on Day 3 be a problem.

If it is, you could go up the Subway first and come down the Right Fork. You could spend the first night at Wildcat Seeps (you would likely have to rim walk the part above the Russell Gulch confluence) and the second night at Grand Alcove.

As early as 1986 and several other times after that my brother, father and I were able to climb all the way up the Subway, so it is possible and was always a good time.

[ratagonia]

Do you have to get a permit for the Subway no more than the day before the hike? If so, would doing it on Day 3 be a problem.

If it is, you could go up the Subway first and come down the Right Fork. You could spend the first night at Wildcat Seeps (you would likely have to rim walk the part above the Russell Gulch confluence) and the second night at Grand Alcove.

As early as 1986 and several other times after that my brother, father and I were able to climb all the way up the Subway, so it is possible and was always a good time.

When you get the permit is a matter of when your trip BEGINS. It can all be one permit as long as you do not travel in a car. So, for instance, I could hike the West Rim Trail up from the Main Canyon and camp in campsite 9 (if I could make it that far), then descend the Full Left Fork and out the Left Fork Trailhead. Drive up to Lava Point and pickup the gear we stashed near the West Rim Trailhead... And I would pick up that permit 24 hours before other people get a shot at the Subway permit...

oops, my little secret, don't tell anyone.

Tom

[Furious George]

The plan was to go next weekend, so I'm not sure where the water levels will be - I'm assuming high. I've done a portion of the Subway, but it was in September, and I imagine that won't exactly be representative of what I'll see in early June.

Good to know this is possible, we're going to do our best to grab that permit bright and early. Thanks for the heads up, Tom - you're definitely a fountain of knowledge around the interwebs, there seems to be no canyon in UT you don't know about!

[ilipichicuma]

I'm assuming high. I've done a portion of the Subway, but it was in September, and I imagine that won't exactly be representative of what I'll see in early June.

Believe it. Water levels should be a lot lower by now, but I wouldn't be surprised if there was still at least a little water flowing all the way from the beginning. You would probably almost certainly want wetsuits, just to be on the safe side.

[ratagonia]

Believe it. Water levels should be a lot lower by now, but I wouldn't be surprised if there was still at least a little water flowing all the way from the beginning. You would probably almost certainly want wetsuits, just to be on the safe side.

The Subway is currently closed, and likely to be for awhile yet.

"Almost certainly want wetsuits" - whatyousmokin, there, Ilipichicuma. Must be some of that Peruvian locoweed! I suppose it might be survivable without wetsuits, but not much fun. You would want wetsuits for the normal Right Fork, if it is not thunderous. Hard to say, but, it is easy to say:

No.

This is not something to do next weekend. This is something to do in July or August, or September, maybe October.

Not sure the Right Fork is gonna be reasonable either, El Bushwaquero. I hope you will take a look at the flow out the RF before heading up for the top.

Tom

[spinesnaper]

The Subway is currently closed, and likely to be for awhile yet.

"Almost certainly want wetsuits" - whatyousmokin, there, Ilipichicuma. Must be some of that Peruvian locoweed! I suppose it might be survivable without wetsuits, but not much fun. You would want wetsuits for the normal Right Fork, if it is not thunderous. Hard to say, but, it is easy to say:

No.

This is not something to do next weekend. This is something to do in July or August, or September, maybe October.

Not sure the Right Fork is gonna be reasonable either, El Bushwaquero. I hope you will take a look at the flow out the RF before heading up for the top.

Tom

Tom you have such a dry sense of humor. "Might be survivable..." Yeah, might not be survivable either, especially with so much cold water exposure over 3 days. A scout trip to the outflow of the right fork sounds prudent.

George, have you previously been through the right fork? It is definitely a two day push in good conditions.

Ken

[Furious George]

Ken, haven't been through the Right Fork yet. Looks like it may be a bad idea this early in the season, huh?

Any recommendations for a good 3 day trip at this time of the year? I'd definitely like a challenge, but not one that ends with me or anybody else in my party in a hospital...

[ilipichicuma]

"Almost certainly want wetsuits" - whatyousmokin, there, Ilipichicuma. Must be some of that Peruvian locoweed! I suppose it might be survivable without wetsuits, but not much fun.

You know, when I posted that I was afraid I was going to make a fool out of myself. I thought the trip in question was a little farther out than this weekend. My bad. Though I will submit that, even when the Subway is opened again it will still have a descent amount of water running through it and wetsuits would still be desirable. Maybe that goes a little way toward redeeming me from my idiot comment.

[spinesnaper]

Ken, haven't been through the Right Fork yet. Looks like it may be a bad idea this early in the season, huh?

Any recommendations for a good 3 day trip at this time of the year? I'd definitely like a challenge, but not one that ends with me or anybody else in my party in a hospital...

I think it depends on how technical you wish to go. In three days, Wirepass to Lee's Ferry is pretty great if you can get a permit and conditions are favorable. Otherwise, there are about 10,000 canyons outside of ZNP that might make for an interesting three day trip.

Ken

[bshwakr]

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[spinesnaper]

Not sure the Right Fork is gonna be reasonable either, El Bushwaquero. I hope you will take a look at the flow out the RF before heading up for the top.

Tom

I'm mostly sure the Right Fork will go with or without the Hammerhead and with or without the Direct Route - common sense bro - my only commitment is to living. It's still early in the season so maybe only 12 hours. I'll let you know Saturday night.

K[/QUOTE]

Please take lots of pictures. Definitely going to be interested in this report.

Ken

[bshwakr]

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[ilipichicuma]

Looks awesome! Good work replacing those anchors!

[spinesnaper]

Wicked. That hammerhead looks like a great way in.