Subway still closed? Why?

[ratagonia]

Tom

Help me understand this, it's ok for the park service to encourage inexperienced hikers to fall off of Angels Landing to their death by placing a hand line in the form of a suspended chain out there, but the Subway, a recognized technical route, is too dangerous for canyoneers? I am not really supposed to understand the logic of this, right?

You can perhaps understand that which is not there, but the logic, if present, escapes my grasp.

reason and love keep little company together now-a-days; the
more the pity that some honest neighbours will not make them friends.

[tanya]

It's been raining like crazy the last 2 days. I wonder what the Subway and Narrows look like. The other waterways I see from the road are flowing pretty heavy.

[airman]

It's been raining like crazy the last 2 days. I wonder what the Subway and Narrows look like. The other waterways I see from the road are flowing pretty heavy.

I'm sure it's still flowing extremely high right now. I tried to post some pictures from May 6, but apparently I don't have that honor and privilege yet. The flows were amazing.

[tanya]

You should be able to post photos. I saw a video of it and its crAZY in there.

Welcome!

[airman]

You should be able to post photos. I saw a video of it and its crAZY in there.

Welcome!

I still can't post photos. I get an error message that says, "You are not allowed to post any kinds of links, images or videos until you post a few times." I'm familiar with HTML, etc.

Here are the URLs for someone with higher authority and greatness, if such being desires to post them. The photos were taken May 6.

Cascading Waterfalls:
i54.tinypic.com/e6d11c.jpg

Potholes in the Subway:
i56.tinypic.com/2lc7okl.jpg

Subway:
i56.tinypic.com/efky6v.jpg

[jdgibney]

Wow, here you go, nice shots!

Potholes in the Subway:


Cascading Waterfalls:


Subway:

[airman]

Thank you. The captions on the first two pictures are switched (edit - this has been corrected). Hopefully the pictures will motivate more people to call and complain about the top down route closure. It would be awesome right now.

[backofbeyond]

I heard that when NPS originally started their proposed plans for permits and regulations they invited the canyoneering community to be involved in the process and only a hand full of canyoneers showed up, is this true? I would think that if experienced people had shown up to the meetings things may be different in the park today. Also if this is the case it is OUR faults for not showing up and voicing OUR opinions; now it is too late and all we can do is complain on bogely. I do not agree with all the parks policies but they are covering their own ass from getting sued if Darwinism occurs.Who know's maybe it's not to late to get involved in changing their policy's.

[ratagonia]

I heard that when NPS originally started their proposed plans for permits and regulations they invited the canyoneering community to be involved in the process and only a hand full of canyoneers showed up, is this true? I would think that if experienced people had shown up to the meetings things may be different in the park today. Also if this is the case it is OUR faults for not showing up and voicing OUR opinions; now it is too late and all we can do is complain on bogely. I do not agree with all the parks policies but they are covering their own ass from getting sued if Darwinism occurs.Who know's maybe it's not to late to get involved in changing their policy's.

Historical revisionism at its best. According to the Park?

There was plenty of input from canyoneers. Some of it was incorporated into the management plan, but mostly it was ignored.

Tom

[jdgibney]

Thank you. The captions on the first two pictures are switched, obviously. Hopefully the pictures will motivate more people to call and complain about the top down route closure. It would be awesome right now.

Fixed the captions, my bad! :)

[Brian in SLC]

Historical revisionism at its best. According to the Park?

There was plenty of input from canyoneers. Some of it was incorporated into the management plan, but mostly it was ignored.

Tom

Ditto the above. We had very good turnouts and a gob of comments. My bet by far the most vocal user group to comment on the management plan and backcountry plan.

ZCC: Kip on the t-shirt! Just dug mine out the other day. Then, talked to the Kipper. Serendipity, baby! I think we drove past each other last weekend, when I made the tactical error of eating at that Buffalo jerky place in Virgin. Shoulda pushed on to Springdale.

[Iceaxe]

Historical revisionism at its best. According to the Park?

There was plenty of input from canyoneers. Some of it was incorporated into the management plan, but mostly it was ignored.

Tom

x3

The canyoneering community did a nice job of responding.

[UtahAdventureGuide]

The Backcountry office called me back today and said they were hiking into the drainages at lava point and the subway and were going to meet tomorrow to discuss reopening the canyon. Flow through the North Fork is still around 1000 CFS so not sure what it will be like in the subway. anyway, get your calls in this afternoon and lets see if we can sway their votes.

[ratagonia]

The Backcountry office called me back today and said they were hiking into the drainages at lava point and the subway and were going to meet tomorrow to discuss reopening the canyon. Flow through the North Fork is still around 1000 CFS so not sure what it will be like in the subway. anyway, get your calls in this afternoon and lets see if we can sway their votes.

Flow on the Mississippi River is way up!!!!! No way they can open the Subway.

Okay, North Fork flow has slightly more relevance. but...

Tom

[backofbeyond]

Historical revisionism at its best. According to the Park?

There was plenty of input from canyoneers. Some of it was incorporated into the management plan, but mostly it was ignored.

Tom

Thanks Tom

[stefan]

I still can't post photos. I get an error message that says, "You are not allowed to post any kinds of links, images or videos until you post a few times." I'm familiar with HTML, etc.

i think it's after 5 posts if i remember correctly. you're currently at 4.

many thanks for posting these. wild stuff

[bshwakr]

__

[Scott Card]

x3

The canyoneering community did a nice job of responding.

X4

[heatheraball]

Is there any new information on subway yet? I don't expect the top down will be open, but we have permits for Monday.

[deathtointernet]

When I picked up a permit for Keyhole (just beautiful right now by the way) on Sunday the ranger said they had been in there checking it out the previous day and "there was a lot of water." Shocking to everyone, I know. The whole thing came across as a sort of casual 'who knows when we'll get around to it.'