Subway still closed? Why?

[ratagonia]

The Park will probably keep the Subway closed until they get enough complaints. Be a complainer - ask to speak to the Superintendent: 1-435-772-3256

Thanks.

Tom

[ghawk]

Just called them up. It pushed me to a message system so I left one. I told them I thought it was doable when my group went through and that we got slowed down because of the people we had to pick up, and that it should definitely be open now. If we overload them with calls that should help hopefully. - Gavin

[ratagonia]

Just called them up. It pushed me to a message system so I left one. I told them I thought it was doable when my group went through and that we got slowed down because of the people we had to pick up, and that it should definitely be open now. If we overload them with calls that should help hopefully. - Gavin

Thanks Gavin.

[xxnitsuaxx]

I just called and told them that I had a group of 16 "experienced outdoorsmen" and we had already picked up our ropes from Harbor Freight and I had looked at a picture of the Subway once and we had already bought our all-cotton hiking clothes and we just needed to know where the paved part of the trail ended and how regularly spaced the "YOU ARE HERE" maps were along the hike and if there was any running water in the canyon. I think that really helped.

[Iceaxe]

I've been sending emails for the past week... with no replies as of yet.

[ratagonia]

I just called and told them that I had a group of 16 "experienced outdoorsmen" and we had already picked up our ropes from Harbor Freight and I had looked at a picture of the Subway once and we had already bought our all-cotton hiking clothes and we just needed to know where the paved part of the trail ended and how regularly spaced the "YOU ARE HERE" maps were along the hike and if there was any running water in the canyon. I think that really helped.

Ooops, the group size limit is 12, so you will have to get two permits.

Tom

[Jammer]

Does the subway in Zion replace the shuttle system? I'll call and complain -- why have it, if you can't ride it?!



- Jamal

[ghawk]

just got a message on my phone from a Ranger. He said that a ranger group went and did it last week and they felt it wasn't safe "for the average person." Glad to know they've made that judgement call for me and are keeping out all people because there is the chance an average person could get stuck. And isn't canyoneering a technical sport? I've never considered it a thing average people should be doing. I'm pretty sure I have to check like 10 boxes saying I know I could die if I go canyoneering on every permit I get. Maybe a nice warning at the backcountry desk with a big sign that says "if you do the subway- you will die!!" would be enough.

[jman]

I called them about a week ago and Derek (backcountry desk) said that his hunch is it's going to remain closed at least until Mid-May even if it drops down to "about normal levels". He said the superintendent and others are thinking of ways of 1) whether to close the subway until a certain date (similar to the narrows) 2) allow permit holders to descend the Subway BUT with more warnings and notices. He was saying that the #2 option is what the pubic wants but the park doesn't want to keep "wasting resources" due to recreationists going underprepared AND THEN calling for help due to their lack of preparations.

Also, And those that already have permits for those days, from reserving early, will lose that money unfortunately.

[accadacca]

I just called and told them that I had a group of 16 "experienced outdoorsmen" and we had already picked up our ropes from Harbor Freight and I had looked at a picture of the Subway once and we had already bought our all-cotton hiking clothes and we just needed to know where the paved part of the trail ended and how regularly spaced the "YOU ARE HERE" maps were along the hike and if there was any running water in the canyon. I think that really helped.

[UtahAdventureGuide]

Called this morning and was told it was still closed with no plans to reopen it. She did say they were going up to lava point this week to take pictures of the conditions. If i'm down there this weekend I'll show up at the backcountry desk in shorts and a t-shirt with a 20' piece of 4mm cord and get a permit for heaps canyon. If it's not closed it must be safe right?

[mhambi]

I heard they had brought in some SITLA consultants and were in the process of making some "improvements" to make it safer for everybody.



I thought I saw a pump truck up at the top of the hike too...

[ratagonia]

Called this morning and was told it was still closed with no plans to reopen it. She did say they were going up to lava point this week to take pictures of the conditions. If i'm down there this weekend I'll show up at the backcountry desk in shorts and a t-shirt with a 20' piece of 4mm cord and get a permit for heaps canyon. If it's not closed it must be safe right?

I was suggesting COMPLAINING about the abrogation of your rights, not MOCKING their incompetence.

T

[Iceaxe]

not MOCKING their incompetence.

It's hard to toss a rock anywhere in that park and not hit incompetence....

[tanya]

Dang! With the water flow in there ......



I called and asked for a kayak permit! YeeeHawww!!!!

[Don]

I just called and told them that I had a group of 16 "experienced outdoorsmen" and we had already picked up our ropes from Harbor Freight and I had looked at a picture of the Subway once and we had already bought our all-cotton hiking clothes and we just needed to know where the paved part of the trail ended and how regularly spaced the "YOU ARE HERE" maps were along the hike and if there was any running water in the canyon. I think that really helped.

Harbor Freight Motherf*ckers!

[accadacca]

Harbor Freight Motherf*ckers!

I loved that part. :haha

[airman]

I did the "bottom up" on Friday, May 6. The water levels looked the same as it does in the "Escaping the Zion Subway" 1 & 2 videos. I've done the Subway almost every year since 1992 and have never seen the water levels this high. It was awesome. I wish the "top down" route was open.

A Ranger checked my permit at the end of the hike. I asked him why the "top down" route was still closed. He said a group of Rangers did it earlier in the week and said it was "not safe" yet. I politely expressed my displeasure for the closure and left it at that. I have found that arguing with Rangers is a waste of time. Maybe I'm paranoid, but I've begun to wonder if they've bugged the Left Fork Trailhead. It seems that in recent years they always pull into the lot about 10 minutes after I get to the trailhead at the end of the day to check my permit.

I miss the days when the Subway was a secret, "canyoneering" wasn't a word yet, and I didn't need to win the "lottery" to go on a hike.

Been lurking on Bogley for awhile. Thank you to those of you in the community that provide great information on this site. You make me laugh a lot and I appreciate it.

[restrac2000]

It seems we need to start lobbying for the NPS to get out of the rescue business. Let folks make their own mistakes. Rescues have led to far too many closures great "resources": the narrows for kayaks, Kolob above very low cfs, and now the Subway.

I am all for permits to track and control quantity of usage to a "resource" but the park should not be in the job of telling us we are not capable of mitigating risks ourselves.

Sad state of affairs.

Phillip

[spinesnaper]

Tom

Help me understand this, it's ok for the park service to encourage inexperienced hikers to fall off of Angels Landing to their death by placing a hand line in the form of a suspended chain out there, but the Subway, a recognized technical route, is too dangerous for canyoneers? I am not really supposed to understand the logic of this, right?