Grand Canyon

[accadacca]

The Fate of the Powell Expedition Crew

In 1869, Major John Wesley Powell, a civil war veteran who was wounded in battle and had his right arm amputated, led a party of nine men on the first American boating expedition through Grand Canyon on the uncharted waters of the Colorado River. After nearly 100 days of monster rapids, near death experiences, and starvation rations, the expedition split at Separation Rapids. Brothers Oramel and Seneca Howland, and William Dunn abandoned the river party; apparently fed up with Powell

[Don]

"Brothers Oramel and Seneca Howland, and William Dunn abandoned the [John Wesley Powell] river party... recent evidence unearthed by Grand Canyon historians possibly indicates they were instead murdered by Mormons associated with the infamous Mountain Meadows Massacre of 1857."

I hadn't heard this before. I used your link to leave a comment on the site you got the information from but can anyone point me to a source for this hypothesis?

[CarpeyBiggs]

it's in down the great unknown, citing research done by a fellow from the university of utah. he apparently found some journals from the old settlers on the shivwits plateau that mentioned a few strange men came into town in the fall of 1869, and they were basically "taken care of..."

[CarpeyBiggs]

my memory is poor. the guy was an amatuer historian at SUU, and it wasn't a journal, it was a letter. the key sentence said ""you are far from ignorant of those deeds of blood from the day the picket fence was broken on my head to the day those three were murdered in our ward and the murderer killed to stop the shedding of more blood..."

the evidence suggests that the only three men to go missing that year in southern utah were in fact the three from separation canyon. far from conclusive though.

[Don]

Down the Great Unknown: John Wesley Powell's 1869 Journey of Discovery and Tragedy Through the Grand Canyon by Edward Dolnick I assume?
http://www.amazon.com/Down-Great-Pow.../dp/0060955864
I haven't read that. I'm going to have to check it out.
Thanks,

[ratagonia]

Down the Great Unknown: John Wesley Powell's 1869 Journey of Discovery and Tragedy Through the Grand Canyon by Edward Dolnick I assume?
http://www.amazon.com/Down-Great-Pow.../dp/0060955864
I haven't read that. I'm going to have to check it out.
Thanks,

I remember it as being in Krakauer's Under the Banner of Heaven. Then again, my memory???

Tom

[Don]

I remember it as being in Krakauer's Under the Banner of Heaven. Then again, my memory???

Tom

That one is on the shelf at home; unread but on my to-do list...

[Sombeech]

I heard they were Athiests and climbed out of the canyon and started telling everybody they saw how stupid they were for going to church when they walked into town.

[Don]

I heard they were Athiests and climbed out of the canyon and started telling everybody they saw how stupid they were for going to church when they walked into town.

Wrong forum.

[jman]

I heard they were Athiests and climbed out of the canyon and started telling everybody they saw how stupid they were for going to church when they walked into town.

Aww...not this again...

[ratagonia]

What about the hidden Egyptian Pyramid in the Grand Canyon? I guess they don't count that because the FEDS know where it is, but don't let anyone near it...

T

[Iceaxe]

I remember it as being in Krakauer's Under the Banner of Heaven. Then again, my memory???

I read a ton of Utah history... The new theory shows up in several recent books. Krakauer gives a good overview of why some believe it was the Mormons in 'Under the Banner of Heaven' (pages 233 thru 245).

[Scott P]

"Brothers Oramel and Seneca Howland, and William Dunn abandoned the [John Wesley Powell] river party... recent evidence unearthed by Grand Canyon historians possibly indicates they were instead murdered by Mormons associated with the infamous Mountain Meadows Massacre of 1857."

I hadn't heard this before. I used your link to leave a comment on the site you got the information from but can anyone point me to a source for this hypothesis?

The theory is not new, but has been around for a very long time (150+ years in fact).

One source is Over the Edge: Death in the Grand Canyon, but there are many, many sources out there. Here is one just randomly pulled off the net:

http://www.grandcanyon.org/booksmore...chapter_25.pdf

No one knows who killed the men. Most probably it was a case of mistaken identity.

At the time the men were killed, the indians in the area were currently in a war with the US Calvary and the Mormons were still hysterical about the Utah war. There were also supposedly a group of prospectors turned owtlaws in the area. Not long before the men were killed, the Navajos has just completed the "long walk" which killed 1/10 of them and were hiding out in the same general region.

No matter which group the three ran into, they would be viewed with suspicion. It could have been a simple murder/robbery too, but mistaken identity seems the most likely cause.

To this day, no one knows who killed the men. Of it weren't for one newspaper article saying that three men were killed, they probably would have just assumed to perished in the desert.

[mattandersao]

I remember it as being in Krakauer's Under the Banner of Heaven. Then again, my memory???

Tom

It is in Under the Banner of Heaven, pages 242-244http://books.google.com/books?id=0DQaTU7Opq0C&pg=PA243&lpg=PA243&dq=under+ the+banner+of+heaven+three+john+wesley+powell+men& source=bl&ots=A_OdSxGU4f&sig=rU3t-Vhitrs2C3hFDGwQ31a9ZIQ&hl=en&ei=oKWnTdHkO8OgtgfWkv ndBw&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0C BcQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q&f=false

[ExpUt]

What about the hidden Egyptian Pyramid in the Grand Canyon? I guess they don't count that because the FEDS know where it is, but don't let anyone near it...

T

I'm very versed on the subject, what is your personal take. Bogus or factual?

I read a ton of Utah history... The new theory shows up in several recent books. Krakauer gives a good overview of why some believe it was the Mormons in 'Under the Banner of Heaven' (pages 233 thru 245).

Sounds like a good read, I'll have to add it to my wish list.

Great thread btw, its the history, mystery and myths that favored my interest in the outdoors as a teenager and that lust continues today.

[ratagonia]

What about the hidden Egyptian Pyramid in the Grand Canyon? I guess they don't count that because the FEDS know where it is, but don't let anyone near it...

T

I'm very versed on the subject, what is your personal take. Bogus or factual?

I have to go with totally bogus, but I am FASCINATED by other people's hallucinations.

Tom

[oldno7]

I don't know about a pyramid but I think I've put the clues together for the Egyptian cave.
It was even mentioned in Powells book. I'd have to go back to get the book and page #'s.

[canyonphile]

I first read about the Howland brothers/Dunn murders being falsely blamed on the Pauite Indians in Over the Edge: Death in Grand Canyon, by Myers and Ghiglieri. My copy is now going on 10 years old, so that's when I first heard of it. In fact, that was the first time I'd heard of the Mountain Meadows Massacre (which, according to Krakaur's Under the Banner of Heaven - an awesome read - was also wrongly blamed on Indians...handy scapegoats they were for the evils committed by white men ).

There is a lengthy section in the "Murder" chapter devoted to the detail of the Powell murders. A letter written from one William Leany a friend named John Steele, written in 1883. It was sort of a deathbed confession. Here is the excerpt of the quote from the letter in the chapter:

"God shall bear me witness that I am clean of all of which they accuse me & they guilty of all that I accuse them & much more...And I cannot see that for me to confess to a lie would make me more worthy or they less guilty & here let me say that my object is & has been to stay the overwhelming tide of thieving whoredom murder and Suicide & like abominations that threaten to desolate the land & you are far from ignorant of those deeds of blood from the day the picket was broken on my head to the day those three were murdered in our ward & the murderer killed to stop the shedding of more blood....As the old Prophets said of the blood & violence in the city & blood tondreth blood if that was not fulfilled in the killing of the three in one room of our ward please say what it was & for all this & much more unrighteous dominations shall be cast out of the land...Be assured that I will, God being my helper, clear my skirts of the mobbing, raking, stealing, whoredom, murder, suicide, lying, slander & all wickedness & abominations even in high places." [I have bolded the same areas bolded in the book]

Apparently, they [Dunn and the Howland brothers] were perceived to be government spies coming after the Mormons following the MMM. After all, three men climbing out of the Grand Canyon from a rafting expedition down the Colorado? Unheard of...literally. So, paranoia took over, and they were likely killed under the presumption they were spies, all before word got back from SLC that there indeed was a river expedition down the Colorado, and that three men had left the trip to hike out and would be needing assistance...oops! A massive cover-up was of course necessary, and it involved killing the murderer and a blood oath of silence from everyone involved.

It's definitely more than a "hypothesis"; apparently, records searched in Toquerville show only on trio had been killed in that area in 1869. Seems pretty clear based on the historical evidence what happened.

Further evidence shows that the murder was very likely Eli N. Pace - the son-in-law of none other than John D. Lee. How's that for irony ?

Anyway, Over the Edge is an awesome book. I'd recommend it for anyone reading this thread .

[Iceaxe]

I first read about the Howland brothers/Dunn murders being falsely blamed on the Pauite Indians in Over the Edge: Death in Grand Canyon, by Myers and Ghiglieri.

FWIW: That book is a great read for anyone interested in the Grand Canyon, canyoneering, Southwest history, etc. The book contains a lot of interesting stories including all that have been mentioned above.

[Scott P]

In fact, that was the first time I'd heard of the Mountain Meadows Massacre (which, according to Krakaur's Under the Banner of Heaven

As entertaining as Krakaur's books are (they are some of the most spell-binding to read), I have been told by people that have been in his books, that he isn't a trustworthy source of information. Of course, his own opinion of his own books may differ.