how close is too close in an empty canyon?

[asdf]

I backpacked Coyote Gulch this past weekend with my sister, wife, and our two boys (4 and 7). We started and chimney rock and packed down to Jacob Hamblin Arch and set up camp under the huge alcove near the bathroom. The next day we day hiked down canyon and we saw our first people 26 hours who were not camping just day hiking the lower loop.
We worked our way back up the canyon to our campsite and once we got there some people had set up camp right next to us. That really pissed us off, I am all for being friendly and whatnot but come on..... Who in the hell sets up camp in what I would consider the same campsite while the canyon is completely empty. There was 5 unoccupied campsites within a 1/4 and they still set up right next to us.... no trees or bushes in between us... just us and them under the alcove.

So we broke down our camp and moved up canyon near hurricane wash to get some privacy....

[ibenick]

I don't care how full it is, that's way too close. period.

[DiscGo]

Yeah, that is lame.

[uintahiker]

Any sort of primitive site in my mind definitely requires more clearance than you'd get in a campground. I'd be

[blueeyes]

Did you ask them to move? Did they say anything to you? That is ridiculous!

[Scott P]

Unless they were very noisy or a big group, I probably wouldn't care too much, but that's just me.

The same thing has happened to me a few times. Once in the same area you were in someone camped next to us. In the morning they said they camped there because they didn't know where they were supposed to camp (they were from back east somewhere and weren't used to wide open places) and assumed that since we were camped there, that camping was allowed in that location.

Another time in the GC, it started to rain and just about everyone who didn't have a tent ended up in the same alcove.

[asdf]

Did you ask them to move? Did they say anything to you? That is ridiculous!

I thought it was pretty obvious we were not happy witht their site selection and my kids kept asking why they took out camping spot. After we packed up I gave them my .02 about them sharing a site with us when the entire canyon was empty.

Another time in the GC, it started to rain and just about everyone who didn't have a tent ended up in the same alcove.

I would of been cool with that had the weather been bad but Coyote Gulch is a pretty big place with plenty campsites and the weather was great. Considering that there was 3 groups camping between Coyote Bridge and Hurricane Wash I still feel they were WAY too close... hell, had they just gone to the site 100 yard down canyon I could of cared less.

[DOSS]

Honestly.. if there is an option that I can't see another group when I set up camp, or preferably hear them that is my preferred minimum distance... Obviously there are exeptions but I would have asked them to leave as they were setting up.

[ExpUt]

Where were they from? I've noticed a bit of almost cultural difference in travelers from other countries. I don't know if its a safety in numbers thing or they are not 100% sure where it is OK to camp so they camp close to others as to not stand out? That said I would have been a bit peeved, then again we are the noisy & late camp so it would have been their loss not ours :D

[gnwatts]

Oh man, I would have gone ballistic. In an empty canyon, a 1/4 mile minimum, IMO.

[Sombeech]

After we packed up I gave them my .02 about them sharing a site with us when the entire canyon was empty.

Just curious, how did they respond? Did they realize their mistake?

[Dr. Nebz]

WTF? Seriously? They just put up shop right next to you? That is not only unacceptable, but kind of spooky if you think about it. I am all for being friendly in the wilderness, but that is just plain rude no matter if you are from here or not.

[Sombeech]

This reminds me of a similar experience at Lake Powell.

We find this sweet spot to park the houseboat, nobody there, we have this cove to ourselves. The next day somebody parks their houseboat BEHIND us, deeper in the cove.

We're a little peeved, giving them dirty looks and what not.

Then some of us decided we didn't really need to go indoors to change into our bathing suits anymore, getting all buck naked and hairy in full view of them everytime we were changing. This was more effective than the dirty looks, needless to say.

[americanhero]

No way!! That's really unbelievable.
I'm always feeling uncomfortable, if I'm too close to someone else. And then I normally move away a little bit to a different spot nearby. Isn't that normal?
And with the whole canyon empty and a lot of spots nearby... have they never heard anything like privacy?
I would be really pissed, seriously. And I would show it. Also seriously.

[Tango]

Wow is this thread right on time! I was up in the Natural Bridges area of Utah this weekend. Right outside the park are 2 dirt roads with pull offs to camp. I set up my little camp in one of the pull offs, there was room for 2 more cars to park but I was there first, I figured anyone would see it was occupied and move on to the next one. I was enjoying my dinner when another car pulls in (you couldn't miss my SUV parked right there), they proceeded to park and start to set up. In the first five minutes this is what I heard: Sammy! Come here! Sammy sit! SAMMY GET OVER HERE!! Hey get a rope and tie him up! Help me with the tent!! SAMMY NO!!!! Needless to say I got my stuff and I WAS OUTTA THERE!!! Less than 1/2 a mile down the road another pull off was MINE ALL MINE!!! I had read this thread before I went and couldn't believe the nerve!!! I mean if you're going to be that loud... Unbelievable!

[Scott Card]

I feel a little guilty posting this but here is my little story. BTW, I agree with the thoughts above about how rude it is to camp right next to someone in a wilderness setting.

My little group got a very late start driving from Utah Valley to go hike Choprock. We arrived at the Escalante River at about 2:30 a.m. We were dead tired to say the least. In Fence Canyon, all the sites we could see were occupied. So we went in to the river (cold at that time of night) so we could check out the spot just down river and around the corner from the exit/entrance of Fence. There was tent there. Not being to familiar with the area we decided to go down river a bit more. We couldn't find a good spot so we worked our way back up stream. We were so tired we just chucked our bags on the ground and went to sleep. At the break of dawn we heard rustling and I looked across the way and we were probably 60-80 feet from the tent or tents we saw a few hours before. I felt bad as they packed up. I thought we were further away. I hope they didn't leave because of us. I would have gladly moved. They vacated before we even got out of bed. They didn't say a word which we appreciated. Again, we would have gladly moved that morning when we could spot out a better site in the daylight. If that was any of you about 3 years ago, sorry.

[uintahiker]

I feel a little guilty posting this but here is my little story. BTW, I agree with the thoughts above about how rude it is to camp right next to someone in a wilderness setting.

My little group got a very late start driving from Utah Valley to go hike Choprock. We arrived at the Escalante River at about 2:30 a.m. We were dead tired to say the least. In Fence Canyon, all the sites we could see were occupied. So we went in to the river (cold at that time of night) so we could check out the spot just down river and around the corner from the exit/entrance of Fence. There was tent there. Not being to familiar with the area we decided to go down river a bit more. We couldn't find a good spot so we worked our way back up stream. We were so tired we just chucked our bags on the ground and went to sleep. At the break of dawn we heard rustling and I looked across the way and we were probably 60-80 feet from the tent or tents we saw a few hours before. I felt bad as they packed up. I thought we were further away. I hope they didn't leave because of us. I would have gladly moved. They vacated before we even got out of bed. They didn't say a word which we appreciated. Again, we would have gladly moved that morning when we could spot out a better site in the daylight. If that was any of you about 3 years ago, sorry.

I see a few differences in your campsite poaching story than the others.
1. You arrived after dark
2. didn't know of any nearby sites, and
3. probably were pretty quiet about setting up camp.
You must have all three factors there to make campsite poaching somewhat acceptable. Wandering over to the original campers for an apology & explanation in the morning also helps.

Three factors that make getting camped on top of bad:
1. There's still daylight
2. There are obvious other campsites in the area. Poor campsites are still campsites.
3. Noise & disturbance. Dogs & kids even more so.
4. You're in a campground with pay sites. - Added after reading nelsoncc's post below.
Any of this list makes it unappropriate anytime.

[nelsonccc]

Bullshit. I would have walked over and picked a fight. Period. I do like beeches approach. Take off all your clothes and walk over to them and welcome them to the site. Take something you can keep dropping and do lots of bending over. Then just walk over by their tent and say here is where we've been shitting and pissing. Then proceed to pee.

Last year during the bogleyfest in Zion a bunch of us we're doing Boundary. We decided to all camp and meet up at the Lava Point campground. In the middle of the night , the campground is now full, a car is driving around the loop over and over. Eventually they stop and I fell back to sleep.
I wake up in the morning to yelling. Turns out one of the guys from Bogley who was going to do Boundary with us had decided to just camp in the same spot as another guy. Needless to say the original site owner was pissed. He moved out and came over to us and we left. The guy who came with us left his car parked at the junction for the road down to the West Rim trailhead. When we came back that evening his tire was flat. Someone had jammed one of those green flossing/pick things into his valve stem.

Lesson learned - dont pull into someone elses camp site and not expect ramifications. I would have done the exact same thing though in all honesty I would probably have slashed instead of just jamming the valve stem. But then again I'm an asshole.

[Scott Card]

Glad you weren't on the Escalante river a couple of years ago. My being too close was accidental and we would have gladly moved had the other party been camping there another day. I would have hated to have my tire slashed.

[nelsonccc]

I'd use judgement. If they showed up in the middle of the night and didn't know then there would be restraint. but if its a blatant thing then I'm going to get pissed. I'm an asshole not a douche, cmon. You know what I mean. If you act like an asshole and are beligerent then I'm going to pee on your tent.