10 States Where Teachers Are Paid The Worst

[mattandersao]

Surprise, surprise in Utah teachers get sh#tty pay, and the largest class sizes in the nation

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/0...title=4_Utah_C

[accadacca]

Too many blasted kids!!!

--

#4 Utah (C-)



Average Salary 2010/2011: $46,571
Number of Enrolled Students Per Teacher 2010/2011: 22.3 (50th)
Average National Assessment of Educational Progress Math Score 2009: 284.06 (28th)
Average National Assessment of Educational Progress Reading Score 2009: 265.59 (23rd)
Average Daily Attendance as a % of Fall Enrollment 2010/2011: 75.5% (50th)
High School Graduation Rate as % of Fall Enrollment 2010/2011: 5.23% (49th)

Legislators are considering a bill that would forbid school districts from employing a "last hired, first fired" approach toward layoffs. Gov. Gary Hebert has criticized lawmakers for cutting his proposed spending deeply. "A report by two Georgetown researchers indicated that 66 percent of all jobs in Utah -- approximately 1 million -- will require some post-secondary training or education beyond high school in 2018," according to the Desert News.

Read more at 24/7 Wall St.

[moabfool]

This has chapped my hide for years. People in Utah poop out kids on full-automatic but they don't want to educate them past potty training (if they take it that far). It's just plain stupid. I got a public education in Utah and I managed to learn quite a bit, but I had certain teachers that I would qualify as incompetent.

Teachers deserve better pay if only because they're expected to be glorified baby sitters for people's unruly brats. In some countries you can't even be a teacher unless you graduated in the top 1/3 of your class. Teacher pay needs to be competetive with other fields to draw the best and the brightest away from industry and business. That will weed the riff raff out of the teaching ranks. It will take almost a generation to see monitary results as the newly educated become productive members of society, but the dividends will surely come.

Oh yah, they need to let teachers use the paddle and red pen. These little brats can have some self esteem when they actually accomplish something.

[uintahiker]

Oh yah, they need to let teachers use the paddle and red pen. These little brats can have some self esteem when they actually accomplish something.

I see several problems. Let the teachers discipline kids. If the punk deserves it, the teacher's doing him a favor!

But deeper then that, it's a parent issue as well. Parents need to demand something of their kids and actually take part in educating their kids. Actually being a part of the kid's life is a better plan, but I'm starting small here.

I think there is a huge lie out there that you need a teaching certificate or teaching degree to teach. There are tons of well qualified individuals out there who don't have the cert and so can't teach something that they're fully competent in and enthusiastic about.

One other thing is you get a lot of girls here in Utah that want a degree that they can be a mom with too. Typically they think teaching or nursing.

[Deathcricket]

Ugh I'm completely opposite opinion. Private schools perform better on every level you can think of, while public schools continually get worse no matter how much money you throw at them. I would say about this point they are a complete joke. I find it sad someone would suggest a "glorified babysitter" should even make $46k to begin with. Since technically I pay for teachers salary through my taxes. I say cut them as low as possible. I would compare it to being a social worker status with comparable salary, $36k sounds about right. How is a teacher more important than a firefighter or policeman who risks their life and only makes around $40k?

Let the private school teachers continue to make a great salary and perform above expectations. I personally know such a lady here in Utah who makes $74k as a private teacher. And she is worth every penny. Make parents who "poop" out 5-10 kids be responsible for paying for their education, not me dammit. It's not my fault you can't figure our birth control. Lastly, abolish the funding Bush foolishly kicked in for "every kid left behind" programs. What was that like 1.8 billion/yr? I forget..

[mattandersao]

Private schools perform better on every level you can think of,

"The NAEP results that show better math and reading scores for students in private schools may not be a result of anything the private schools do.
It could well be that those children have more highly educated, and wealthier parents, than those in public schools, on average.
We know there is a direct correlation between standardized test scores and a parent's income and education level, so reading and math scores don't make the case that those schools are actually better."


"a well-designed study released today by the Center on Education Policy that challenges decades of research on the advantages of private schools. "Contrary to popular belief, we can find no evidence that private schools actually increase student performance," said Jack Jennings, the center's president and a former staffer in the Democratic-controlled House, in a press release. "Instead, it appears that private schools simply have higher percentages of students who would perform well in any environment based on their previous performance and background."

[mattandersao]

If I could handpick all of my students I guarandamntee they would out perform the average public classroom!

[JP]

But, like everywhere in the United States, an overload of dumb@$$'s

[Deathcricket]

uhh did you read the rest of the article you posted? It pretty much makes my point for me. But yeah, there are probably a few "average" private schools out there too. I still don't get how you want to argue that a class of 10 isn't better in every way that a class of 22.

Except that's not exactly what the data shows. It's true that controlling for socioeconomic status (SES) eliminates most of the public-school/private-school differences in achievement-test scores in math, reading, science and history. But even after you control for SES, Catholic schools run by holy orders (not those overseen by the local bishop) turned out to perform better than other schools studied. True, as the study says, there are only a small number of religious-order schools. But the data suggests that the type of school a kid attends does affect how well he will do — and that we could learn something from how holy orders run their schools. The Center on Education Policy, however, is an advocacy group for public schools, so it didn't look into why holy-order schools are succeeding where others fail.
The center also downplays another finding: While controlling for SES eliminated most public school/private-school differences in achievement test scores, it did not eliminate differences in the most widely used test of developed abilities, the SAT. (As I explained more fully here, developed abilities are those nurtured through schoolwork, reading, engaging a piece of art, and any other activities that spark critical thinking. Developed abilities aren't inborn traits but honed competencies, more akin to athletic skill gained through practice rather than raw IQ. By contrast, achievement tests measure the amount of material students have committed to memory in any particular field.) Combined with high-school grades, SAT scores are the best predictor of how kids will do in their freshman year of college. And the data in the new study shows that private-school students outperform public-school students on the SAT.
Isn't that just because richer private-school kids can afford to be coached more before the SAT? No — remember that this study carefully controlled for socioeconomic status. Rather, it appears private schools do more to develop students' critical-thinking abilities — not just the rote memorization required to do well on achievement tests.
In short, today's study shows that sending your kid to private school — particularly one run by a holy order like the Jesuits — is still a better way to ensure that he or she will get into college. Just don't expect all education experts to agree.

Read more: http://www.time.com/time/nation/arti...#ixzz1JRPAabQG

[mattandersao]

uhh did you read the rest of the article you posted?

Ya I did I thought I took the link to my source out DAMNIT!

[oldno7]

I get really tired of teachers claiming they are underpaid in Utah.

So is most every other occupation, based on National averages. If you don't like the pay scale here, PLEASE MOVE to were it is more to your liking!!!!

Theres an awful lot of people who would consider themselves wealthy on a $45,000 salary for 9 months of work.

Not to mention benefits and the almost 0% possibility of being fired...............

[mattandersao]

I get really tired of people with the love it or leave mentality. Hey George Washington you don't like the tax on tea? Move to France! Hey MLK... Obviously extreme examples but... there is nothing wrong with wanting and fighting for a better life or pay.

As for 9 months of work my contract is for 185 days ;)

The link also mentioned that Utah is the worst when it comes to class sizes. To me this is a bigger problem than my actual pay(personally I think I get paid pretty well for my contract) but having 40 hormonal 9th graders in a classroom is dang near on par with some developing nations class sizes!

[Rented mule]

Just look at the local paper. Big pictures for the kiddies scrapbooks for how their
hai-lai team whooped up on some other school. Oh look! There's a picture or Megan
right on the front page of the sports section; a ninth grader with a freakin knee brace
already in life. when she has her sixth child, I''m sure she'll have an artificial knee.
I was at the Naval Academy and saw Robinson's award winning collegiate basketball
there. Flat and dry rotted in a case.

We put so much into sports in our schools that if they threaten to ever get rid of football, parents would sell their souls to keep it. I love football. But, when the damned ship is sinking? We are so self serving and self gatifying look at me!
I'm on the front page of the sports section with my school. Somewhere next to the
clasifieds you might see a token picture of a kid who won a spelling bee.

I got my ass beat several times in school by teachers and asst pricipals.. I learned a lot of hard lessons.
I was kicked off the bus and made to walk in the rain to school. I lived too far to walk and my parents weren't about to give in and drive me. Get kicked off the bus?
You're walking.
This sports craze goes right into college, too.

[mattandersao]

put so much into sports in our schools that if they threaten to ever get rid of football, parents would sell their souls to keep it

Washington County tried to eliminate only 9th grade sports and it dang near turned into armageddon!

[Kent K25]

Washington County tried to eliminate only 9th grade sports and it dang near turned into armageddon!

9th and 10th....and they SHOULD HAVE done away with 10th in the final decision.

[oldno7]

I get really tired of people with the love it or leave mentality. Hey George Washington you don't like the tax on tea? Move to France! Hey MLK... Obviously extreme examples but... there is nothing wrong with wanting and fighting for a better life or pay.

As for 9 months of work my contract is for 185 days ;)

The link also mentioned that Utah is the worst when it comes to class sizes. To me this is a bigger problem than my actual pay(personally I think I get paid pretty well for my contract) but having 40 hormonal 9th graders in a classroom is dang near on par with some developing nations class sizes!

But when your pay is from US citizens(taxes), many who don't know were their next paycheck is coming from, whining about the difficulty of your chosen profession in any manner is weak.

I just got done remodeling most the AT&T stores in Utah, I did it at a cost of almost 1/2 of what the same work was going for on the East coast, did I whine that my job was tough and my pay was 1/2? No==I was damn glad I had a job and was able to employ some hard working construction people who hadn't had a job for several years. Most of these hard working individuals will make considerably less than $20,000 this year, did they whine?? Oh on the contrary---they were excited to be back to work, and now they are unemployed again. You see, they have no job guarantee and before you can say, yea but people making this little amount of money don't pay taxes, let me tell you--they did, I took the money from their checks and sent it in to the fed and state, part of which went to your salary, so you can complain how bad your STEADY job is and how your guaranteed money doesn't go as far as it used too, but your cries fall on deaf ears.
Maybe now you might understand why myself and others in similar situations, grow tired of the school teacher whine.............
If your a great teacher, go into the private sector and teach for more money in private schools, but be forewarned, your pay will become dependent on your performance AND your job will no longer be guaranteed. If thats what is required to make more money in your chosen profession, I suggest you try that route before you complain again about your guaranteed Government job.

[Sombeech]

I'm on the Teacher payscale, even though I'm a computer tech for the school district. Same paycheck, benefits, days off...

I agree, it doesn't pay much annually. But then I can't really expect a good annual paycheck from working 188 days a year.

$47k a year (as cited above) with summers off? That's awesome.

Now of course I need a bit more to support my family so I strive to find work during the summer, working 12 months out of the year to make ends meet just like the rest of the working class.

My job has options to "move up" and what not, and I'm striving to make my way up there to get a 12 month position in this job. This would increase my paycheck and make it similar to what "usual" folks make. As it should.

It's a great job, I love it. Very solid in either economy, great hours, I love the work, the people, the location..... I just have to work 12 months out of the year to make ends meet, and that's the way it should be.

I hope I'm not offensive, but being in the education system I hope I can deliver a non biased statement.

[mattandersao]

so you can complain how bad your STEADY job is and how your guaranteed money doesn't go as far as it used too, but your cries fall on deaf ears.

If you would call

personally I think I get paid pretty well for my contract)

whining about pay, I'm not sure exactly where this should fit on the whine scale

I just got done remodeling most the AT&T stores in Utah, I did it at a cost of almost 1/2 of what the same work was going for on the East coast, did I whine that my job was tough and my pay was 1/2?....Most of these hard working individuals will make considerably less than $20,000 this year,

That was just a joke, but I dont recall complaining. If I did let me say "47k a year with summers off? Thats awesome!" No complaints from me! Although 47K would be quite high for me personally I'm more in low 40's.

before you can say, yea but people making this little amount of money don't pay taxes, let me tell you--

Actually that thought never crossed my mind

You do raise some good points and I am going to try to address a few of them, just dont say "love it or leave it" as that is an asinine argument, unless you are talking about Californians moving to S. Utah!

#1- My guaranteed government job...Since I have been here bad teachers have been fired, unfortunately not enough and often it ends up they just transfer schools.
#2- Merit Pay based on performance- BRING IT ON!!! Not only would I be able to prove my worth, I would probably get paid more handsomely plus I would remove this "complaint" from the right wing and anti-teacher arsenal
#3-Teachers dont feel pinch of recession- 5 paid days in Washington County have been cut, teachers have been let go, I spend even more of my own personal money on supplies as there isnt any money in the coffers.

Its funny during the recession all of my construction worker buddies, and clients of my wife (hair stylist in private sector) were flabbergasted by how little teachers make. They were actively trying to recruit me saying how much more money I would make working with them. Now that there is a recession its funny how quickly these exact same people have flipped. When they were pulling in 6 figure salary my $40, 000 was disgusting to them, now I am the rich man??

[oldno7]

Matt
You've lost me a little from where you went from teachers salary to corporate loopholes, but I do appreciate you taking the time away from the students to respond.

Could you maybe give them a quick 10 minute pop quiz and then clarify the bottom third of your reply.

Thanks

[mattandersao]

LOL! Ya im going to delete the bottom third trying to change subjects to discuss the real villains, not teachers, but rather robber barons!

1st response before school ( I did use a couple mins of my prep)

Currently we are in a "lockdown" drill! Now all that is missing to complete the hat trick will be an earthquake drill (fire drill, lockdown, earthquake being the hat trick)