Scout Leader Training Opportunity.

[Aarjonet]

Hi. I just registered and am somewhat new. I've been reading the threads because I'm an interested scouter who has taken scouts out on a number of climbing adventures. I recently became certified as a climbing director for BSA and the man in charge happen to be on the national committee that was writing the national standards. In regards to canyoneering, some of the committee members don't even know what it is. The standards are meant for very simple outings. Top rope climbing only, and basic rappelling. Anything more, they are avoiding. They simply say to get outside certification or hire a guide. Also and unfortunately, the standards are moving towards making climbing and cope courses follow pretty much the same rules. Oh, and by the way, I think having rules that BSA never changes, is never going to happen. Too many politics.

[Redpb]

Good thing I got to this thread to settle the argument. Phew... My skills as a peacemaker are known far and wide. I think you are mistaken sir! Although you have credentials and huge muscles to flex as evidenced by this picture. You clearly do not have a bottle of liquid sunshine. Therefore Jaxx is clearly competent to lead. I present the proof.

I am newer to canyoneering thanks to Jaxx. I mean that in a good way, for introducing me to it. Jaxx and Chabidiah have taken me through several canyons now and I would trust them time and time again. They are competent and skilled in many aspects. I am not an expert so maybe I don't entirely understand what it takes to be, but I know they have gotten my ass out of a couple situations I got myself into. Seriously, thank you guys.
We just came off of a weekend in Quandary and I was amazed at the number of different techniques these two came up with to make the escapes and raps 'for practice' (I think were the words). I have yet to see a time either of these men slack, in the slightest, to keep me safe.

[oldno7]

I am newer to canyoneering thanks to Jaxx. I mean that in a good way, for introducing me to it. Jaxx and Chabidiah have taken me through several canyons now and I would trust them time and time again. They are competent and skilled in many aspects. I am not an expert so maybe I don't entirely understand what it takes to be, but I know they have gotten my ass out of a couple situations I got myself into. Seriously, thank you guys.
We just came off of a weekend in Quandary and I was amazed at the number of different techniques these two came up with to make the escapes and raps 'for practice' (I think were the words). I have yet to see a time either of these men slack, in the slightest, to keep me safe.

I think most comments here about Nick and Chad are made tongue in cheek, 2 great guys in my book.
But that doesn't mean we will cut them any slack...................

[Jaxx]

Thanks guys for the kind words! I feel so loved.

I agree that there are leaders out there that aren't properly qualified to take boys through canyons, even the Subway. I've seen them; it's quite frightening (no permits, no rope, no water, no helmets, etc.).

I don't think these new rules will help scout leaders that are just completely clueless, read stupid. They probably don't have a tour permit (trip plan) filed with the council for approval. Unfortunately a few dumb people make the need to tighten the rules on everyone, like so many other things in life.

[Deathcricket]

I am newer to canyoneering thanks to Jaxx. I mean that in a good way, for introducing me to it. Jaxx and Chabidiah have taken me through several canyons now and I would trust them time and time again. They are competent and skilled in many aspects. I am not an expert so maybe I don't entirely understand what it takes to be, but I know they have gotten my ass out of a couple situations I got myself into. Seriously, thank you guys.
We just came off of a weekend in Quandary and I was amazed at the number of different techniques these two came up with to make the escapes and raps 'for practice' (I think were the words). I have yet to see a time either of these men slack, in the slightest, to keep me safe.

I agree they are a good crew, one of the best I've been on. Even on this day Tom gave them as close to a compliment as I've seen him speak out. Oh, and we learned a stone knot so it was a win/win.

[utswell]

I attended the "Scout Leader Training Opportunity" offered by Clark and Spidey last Friday and Saturday. It was great. It was practical and fun. It focused on canyoneering and being safe. If you are a scout leader, you will benefit from this "ACA based" training, even if you have been at canyoneering for a while. Spidey and Clark did a great job.

[bbjones]

I am not going to address each of what I perceived to be rhetorical questions but I will respond briefly.

BSA and the LDS Church have an agreement. Scouting is the activity arm of the young men

[arnellfam]

Just a quick thanks to all who are putting in the effort to define guidelines, provide training (and commentary) and up the standard for unit leaders in the scouting program. I'm a scoutmaster and canyoneering noob myself , having spent the last three years (slowly) gaining training and experience in the hopes of one day taking my boys on these kinds of trips. I'm convinced the outdoors can make a real difference in the lives of our young people who are so often insulated from "the real world" during their teens. This forum, the ACA Meetup pages and a bunch of other sites have been invaluable to instill in me the gravity of the importance of training rather than just "winging it."

[rcwild]

All it takes to hang out a shingle as a Canyoneering Guide is a shingle, which are available at Home Depot for not much money. All people who would hang out that shingle would consider themselves "trained" I hope, but it does not mean that WE would consider them trained. There was a time when we thought the ACA Certification would fulfill the role of sorting the wheat from the chaff, but the political play involved has pretty much nixed that idea, so we are left with not much meaning to this rule.

What political play are you referring to, Tom?

[airman]

What political play are you referring to, Tom?

[rcwild]

Tom,

Letting it stand on vague innuendo?

If you honestly feel there has been some political play involved in sorting the wheat from the chaff, you must have examples in mind where some deserving wheat was denied certification or some undeserving chaff received certification. I'm sure some of the folks here would like to hear some specifics.

If you can't come up with any real examples, I will.