Buckskin gluch go/no go for Saturday April 2

[spinesnaper]

I am reaching out for some community intellegence and advice.

My partner and I are scheduled to hike from Wirepass to Lees Ferry with the start this Saturday. April 2. I have done Paria annually for the past four years and on one of those occasions I did Wirepass/Buckskin.

I am looking at the weather scratching my head. So I am seeking some other opinions. The National Weather Service forecast looks bland at Whitehouse for this Saturday: http://forecast.weather.gov/MapClick...ld2=-112.00125. But if you click on the map up stream on Paria it looks to be more wet. Of course here it is still "slight chance of showers." Naturally, I will chat with the rangers on Thursday.

I would be interested in thoughts of the relative risk of flash flood. Given this weather, would you do Buckskin assuming a transit time of about 6 hours. We plan to hike to Big Spring that first day. Do you think the rangers will have an accurate feel for this risk or are they likely to be overly conservative. I am not anxious to be a "bug in a firehose." However I don't want to bag the hike if the risk is minimal. Saturday night has a chance of showers but again I am not worried about getting rained on.

Bogley insight is greatly valued and appreciated.

Thanks

Ken Steinsapir

[tanya]

Hi Ken. You are the one that emailed me right?


Here is the link for the trip that just went there...

http://www.bogley.com/forum/showthre...476#post445476

[spinesnaper]

Tanya

Yes. Read that thread above and chatted with the Rangers in the Kanab field office. They said there are a number of pools in Buckskin with some to chest depth. The Paria is flowing all the way through the confluence and below due to snow run off. No flash flood risk however. There is a chance of showers in the drainage for the Paria for Saturday but it will be from patchy clouds and most likely in the form of snow. So all and all, things are looking good for a mud fest down Buckskin gluch. I think I will bring my semi-dry dry suit even if it makes me look like a ghost-buster (kind) or a garbage collector (mean). It is semi dry thanks to bush whacking to get into Das Boot a couple of years ago-will see if the patching has been successful. And of course it will be dry bag city. I am excited just writing about it.

Thanks again Tanya

Ken

[tanya]

I love the garbage man drysuit look. Make sure to give us a trip report here when you get back!

[ststephen]

We went last year at almost the same date in what I think will turn out to be similar conditions. Mud fest is right. I think your estimate of 6 hrs all the way through Buckskin is optimistic, but with an early start it's certainly doable to make it to the Paria that day. I suggest carrying extra water just in case the mud slows you down and you have to camp at the Middle Route exit. In case you haven't seen it, here's my report from last year:

http://www.bogley.com/forum/showthre...to-Lee-s-Ferry

[spinesnaper]

I love the garbage man drysuit look. Make sure to give us a trip report here when you get back!

They do say women find men in uniforms irresistable.

[tanya]

This is so true!

[spinesnaper]

We went last year at almost the same date in what I think will turn out to be similar conditions. Mud fest is right. I think your estimate of 6 hrs all the way through Buckskin is optimistic, but with an early start it's certainly doable to make it to the Paria that day. I suggest carrying extra water just in case the mud slows you down and you have to camp at the Middle Route exit. In case you haven't seen it, here's my report from last year:

http://www.bogley.com/forum/showthre...to-Lee-s-Ferry

Paul

Thanks for this trip report. I completely agree my time frame is out the window. With these conditions, we will be finishing day one by headlamp and for full measure we will probably be rained on. Regarding extra water, we will be carrying a gallon each and if that is not enough, we can supplement it with malt beverages. I wonder what my Starbucks instant coffee would be like brewed with a pale ale?

Ken

[Iceaxe]

Do you think the rangers will have an accurate feel for this risk or are they likely to be overly conservative.

I have found the rangers at White House to be clueless as to the conditions of Buckskin... and to say they will be overly conservative would be an understatement....

If you have done Buckskin before then you know you are seldom more then a couple hundred feet away from safe ground. It would be hard to scare me away from Buckskin unless it was flowing and/or raining hard over the Buckshin drainage. If it looked iffy I would pack gear for spending an extra night if a flashflood stranded me on a ledge. YMMV.

Buckskin Gulch beta

[spinesnaper]

Shane

Funny you should question the competence of the "rangers" at the White House ranger station. Two years ago, I was planning to do Wirepass to Lee's Ferry solo early May. Conditions were great. I don't think I stepped into any water until the area below the obstacle. I made camp somewhere short of Big Springs. Gusty winds busted my fancy carbon fiber tent poles, my knee was sore, generally I was feeling sorry for myself. In the morning after loading up on motrin, I headed down canyon but due to knee discomfort, feeling bad about my broken tent, and generally recognizing the it was 26 miles down canyon or 12 miles up canyon, I turned around and hiked out to White House despite my car being parked at Lee's Ferry. I stood at the side of the highway for an hour trying to hitchhike but with no luck. Naturally my cell phone was locked in my car. So I went over to the Ranger Station figuring they could put me in touch with one of the shuttle drivers who presumable for a fee could take me back to my car. I walked in to the Ranger Station and explained my situation to the "ranger" behind the counter. I think he thought I was trying to pull a fast one on him. Literally I had to repeat my story three times before he got that I was a distressed hiker. Slowly you could see the neurons fire in the brain and that glint of recognition that I was describing reality. You would of thought I was asking to borrow the keys to his car. Good thing I was carrying enough cash to cover the shuttle because, boy, that is strictly a cash operation over there. I just could not believe how much effort was required to obtain minimal assistance from this "ranger. So clueless-you betcha! Any less helpful and I would have had to activate my personal locator beacon in the damn ranger station!


Ken

[nelsonccc]

If you go be sure to post a TR. A few of us are doing Buckskin on the 15th and 16th.

[manuscriptsdon'tburn]

I prefer late May or June for Paria &/or the Dive (Buckskin Gulch). Took my 8-year-old down last year June 17th to 19th. Beautiful conditions. Even had a little rain shower to cool things off one evening at the Confluence. Usually lots of cold water in April. Once your feet go numb I guess it's OK.

[spinesnaper]

We just finished Wirepass to Lee's Ferry. Three days, two nights. Mega mud fest in Buckskin. Paria super muddy. Much fun. Will post a detailed trip report. Any one with specific question before I post can email me. Thanks to Tanya, Paul and Shane.

Ken

[dunbar2003]

Long time lurker here as I travel out west for a week and a half usually once a year. Did Buckskin with my sister in a year back and it was bone dry. I know that won't be the case this year as we are planning on going on April 24th, but just curious if there are any other updates. I read this thread and the recent trip report but was wondering about needing any rope and how deep the pools would be. Last time we knew the rope was left up and trustworthy at the fall and that you could go under the other obstacle as it was clear of debris.

Any support would be greatly appreciated (also being a newb, didn't know if I should start a new thread or just post in this one....)

[DOSS]

Long time lurker here as I travel out west for a week and a half usually once a year. Did Buckskin with my sister in a year back and it was bone dry. I know that won't be the case this year as we are planning on going on April 24th, but just curious if there are any other updates. I read this thread and the recent trip report but was wondering about needing any rope and how deep the pools would be. Last time we knew the rope was left up and trustworthy at the fall and that you could go under the other obstacle as it was clear of debris.

Any support would be greatly appreciated (also being a newb, didn't know if I should start a new thread or just post in this one....)

I would say if you are confident in your ability to down-climb then there is no need for a rope otherwise I never trust that there is a hand-line left anywhere that I might need it :)

no info on the pool depth from me though :)

[spinesnaper]

Long time lurker here as I travel out west for a week and a half usually once a year. Did Buckskin with my sister in a year back and it was bone dry. I know that won't be the case this year as we are planning on going on April 24th, but just curious if there are any other updates. I read this thread and the recent trip report but was wondering about needing any rope and how deep the pools would be. Last time we knew the rope was left up and trustworthy at the fall and that you could go under the other obstacle as it was clear of debris.

Any support would be greatly appreciated (also being a newb, didn't know if I should start a new thread or just post in this one....)

Don't worry, we're flexible here. See my trip report on Wirepass to Paria. We did the hike April 2-4. Interesting the rabbit hole under the obstacle was open. This still requires a little down climbing and because you are on you hands and knees down there, you will most likely need a rope to drop your pack off the obstacle. The safest course is to bring an appropriate length of 1 inch webbing, be prepared to set up your own handline. However, I have seen all sorts of things tied at the top of the obstacle, including boating type cordage (and yes, I used it). In terms of pools, can't speak for the first part of Buckskin because we did Wirepass (saves 4 miles). There were waist deep wades and lots of mud. The first half was wetter than the portion after the middle way. It is a long day in there. Monitor the weather and have a great time!

[dunbar2003]

Spinesnaper, Thanks and yes, I did read your trip report. I remember there being two obstacles...one it was helpful (not necessary) to have a rope... and someone who did it two days before us informed us there were three ropes there...and the second one was a huge boulder that had previously been filled out (but we just walked under as the debris had been cleared out...). Guess neither are really obstacles now...just fun scrambles :-). We came in from Wirepass as well last time when we did it in a day, but the big difference is there was ZERO mud and Paria was bone dry. Just wanted to find out what the conditions were like as close to when we left. I'm just wondering if it's unrealistic (with day packs and three people who are in pretty good shape and have all been on long day hikes) to do it in a day with the conditions. Last time was a cake walk, BUT....no mud. Thanks again.

Nelsoncc...it'd be awesome if you could just post a brief report or contact me after you go on the 15th and 16th. We have neo-prene socks, enough gear to stay warm, are experienced distance day hikers....but still would be good to know the conditions assss close to hike as possible obviously. Thanks and enjoy your trip!

[spinesnaper]

I must have done Buckskin close to the same time you did which I think was 2009. It was unbelievable in there. I don't think I got a splash of mud on my shoes until past the obstacle where the water beings to flow. For sure this will be a much more typical Buckskin. I think if the weather is stable your are going to have a great time in there.

The obstacle is now a different beast with the rabbit hole open. Unless you stand 40 inches tall, you are not strolling through there. Perhaps you will find ropes that you can use to lower your packs. Alternatively one of your party can duck under and position themselves to receive the packs. However, the drop is high enough that you will need something to lower the pack, even if it is just a few feet of line. There is a rock fall a couple of miles into Buckskin a couple of miles past wire pass. This has a millisecond of class 4 with nonexistent exposure. Still I can't imaging my wife climbing over that. Once you are on top, getting through is trivial.

Dont underestimate the face of the obstacle. It is awkward and down climbing would require some actually rock climbing bona fides. A twisted or broken ankle at that location would be a major bummer.

Are you planning on going through to Lee's Ferry or heading back up to White House? If down to Lee's Ferry, be certain to find water out of the Springs rather than settling water from the river. There was very generous spring flow and absolutely no reason to settle water.

Have a great trip.

Ken

[dunbar2003]

Ken, thanks so much. I won't underestimate the obstacle at all. Like you said though, nothing requires a rope or actual climbing ability at this point though.....which is a good thing :-).

Funny thing about you mentioning your wife, when we reached the obstacle there were three ropes on it. A group of four backpackers were the only people we saw that day, and we caught up to them right at the obstacle. They went first, lowered packs. My sister and I had day packs (like we will have this coming Saturday). What was hilarious (I'm a retired D-1AA football player, rugby,etc, sister is marathon runner, twig) is that my sister went down rappeling gracefully,...I slipped, stomatch slammed against obstacle and I lowered myself down with upper body strength while squirming.... Thank god no one had a camera out.

I have definite respect as I do for all things in nature and not only because my wife might struggle with it, but I might as well :-) (and 15 miles from a med-evac ;-) ). The fall you mention earlier, it's really brief though as I recall and while you don't laugh at it, three agile people should have no problem right? unless things had changed? We don't have any rope is why I ask.

I got in last night to St. George at 2 am...god I love being out there! Off to Bryce now for an easy day 1.

Sounds like we can all go throught the rabbit hole (remember, we will have small day packs as well so lowering packs won't be an issue...). I just didn't want to bite off more than we can chew. We've done plenty of 20 plus mile days previously, but we have one member of our group who gets exhausted after 10 miles. She won't be joining us for Buckskin though ;-).