Death in No Man's

[denaliguide]

As a team member in the rescue and recovery in no man's canyon, I would like to offer my condolences to family and friends and thanks to the family and friends present for their kind words at the end of a difficult and emotional search. One small suggestion to those entering our canyons, if you could leave a detailed route map on the dash of your vehicle, visible through the windshield so we can know where to begin our search should you be overdue. We always begin our search at the vehicle. A good map or written instructions of your intended route could save precious time should a search occur. Stay safe and I hope you enjoy our canyons as much as I do. Thanks, Don

thanks don, for the work of you and your team.

[Iceaxe]

thanks don, for the work of you and your team.

x2

[oldno7]

Thanks Don, I've worked on SAR, it is a very tiring, thankless voluntary job, but the most rewarding also.

[mr. incognito]

I intentionally rappeled off the end of a short rope once. The rope ended about 5' above the ground so I figured I'd just drop the last little bit and land on my feet.... nope... when the end of the rope passed through my ATC is flipped me onto my back... Lesson learned...

More than a decade ago I took a 50 meter rope to a 30 meter rappel in the days before things were well written about with this sort of thing. I put 'er through the anchor and let both ends fly. I had no way to check if the rope was down due to a wicked overhang. I did have barrel knots at the end of my lines because I had no intention to rap off the end and couldn't tie them together because of twist generated by the 8. I was "Aussie" style face first because it was a unseen landing with a gnarly overhang so I just put tension on the 8 and walked off. I found myself at the end of the line literally 10 feet off the deck. When I reached the end of my doubled rope ends I had to batman up around 2 feet of rope (nearly impossible to feed lines in the 8 and gorilla up) I was five seconds away from cracking out some prussiks but I squeeze cinched the rope around my legs (painful) a couple of times so I could have hands free to untie the barrel knots. I had about a ten foot drop and figured I could handle that onto a bad rock covered sloper. I got back in descent mode and slid to the end then let go of the brake hand. I hit that sloper on my feet and shot down slope like a rocket barely staying on my feet for my best ever sagebrush/boulder hurdles 50 meter dash. I got lucky. I could see a real bad turf rash or worse happening on a sloper, on a flat deck I would have just augered in with both ankles.
Lesson learned, check carefully before headed down line into the wild blue yonder. I could have used a rescue 8 to secure a hands free position but mostly I rap now with an ATC anyways. A spotter on the deck could have saved me grief as well.

[mr. incognito]

Rex, Don and Wayne County SAR,
I hope someone submits this to Accidents in North American Mountaineering ANAM. http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sourc...d973fg&cad=rja One cannot learn from one's own mistakes in this situation but others certainly can. they print a yearly accident report so the climbing/mountaineering community can evaluate and learn from accidents like this. Because it was during technical rope work it certainly would qualify for ANAM even though it happened while Canyoneering.

[canyoncaver]

More than a decade ago I took a 50 meter rope to a 30 meter rappel in the days before things were well written about with this sort of thing.

Umm, I'm pretty sure that even a decade ago it was well written that you need more than 50m of rope to do a 30m double rope rappel!

[mr. incognito]

Umm, I'm pretty sure that even a decade ago it was well written that you need more than 50m of rope to do a 30m double rope rappel!

There was no beta on this particular drop in the guide books yet. I went with an eyeball tape measure. Hmmmm not so accurate. Yes the literature was bursting with 50m rappel epics on 60m rope drops even back then.

[ratagonia]

Rex, Don and Wayne County SAR,
I hope someone submits this to Accidents in North American Mountaineering ANAM. http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sourc...d973fg&cad=rja One cannot learn from one's own mistakes in this situation but others certainly can. they print a yearly accident report so the climbing/mountaineering community can evaluate and learn from accidents like this. Because it was during technical rope work it certainly would qualify for ANAM even though it happened while Canyoneering.

I love ANAM, but this would be an odd accident to list in there, as we really do not, and never will, know the why's and how's of the accident. What is there to learn?

Tom

[ratagonia]

A memorial service for Louis will be held on Saturday, March 19, 3:00 pm, in the Lodge at the University of Colorado Colorado Springs. In lieu of flowers, Louis's widow Millie asks that donations be made to the Wayne County Sheriff's Office Search and Rescue Team in Louis Cicotello's name. Their address is:

Wayne County Sheriff
Search and Rescue
PO Box 219
Loa, UT 84747

Cash or hard copy checks only, please -- the local bank does not have facilities to process credit card donations.

Thanks

Imlay Canyon Gear has made a donation to Wayne County Sheriff in Louis's memory.

How about Climb-Utah?

Tom

[mr. incognito]

I love ANAM, but this would be an odd accident to list in there, as we really do not, and never will, know the why's and how's of the accident. What is there to learn?
Tom

While the concise chain of events is not known, much can be gleaned from this accident that this tragedy would be a valuable teaching aid in ANAM.
By the surviving member of this accident we learned that only one rope was available, the ropes were uneven (the victim's last words addressed this,) no precautionary measures were taken to prevent rapping off the ends of the rope such as tying ends together or knots. I think an uneven rope rappel error is extremely easy to make if one is not aware of this problem and doesn't have good info on what can happen (ANAM) if precautions aren't taken. uncontrolled descent rappel errors are the bread and butter of ANAM so to speak.
Basic info could read something like this: rappel error off uneven ends proves fatal. Victim was aware of uneven ends on doubled rappel line but did not correct or take preventative measures to stop from rappelling off uneven rope ends. victim's partner was stranded because victim took the rope down with him as he weighted one side unevenly and pulled the rope through the anchor. Preventative measures that could have been used: center marking ropes, "stopper" knots or tying rope ends together, partner double checking system when alerted to a "problem" before allowing descent, back up rope to prevent stranding or stuck rope situations. Retreat plans could have been prepared for.
I still think this unfortunate accidnet should be submitted to ANAM I think many especially those with little rappel experience can learn a great deal from this particular story even though all the facts on exactly what happened are unknown.

[ratagonia]

More than a decade ago I took a 50 meter rope to a 30 meter rappel in the days before things were well written about with this sort of thing. I put 'er through the anchor and let both ends fly. I had no way to check if the rope was down due to a wicked overhang. I did have barrel knots at the end of my lines because I had no intention to rap off the end and couldn't tie them together because of twist generated by the 8. I was "Aussie" style face first because it was a unseen landing with a gnarly overhang so I just put tension on the 8 and walked off. I found myself at the end of the line literally 10 feet off the deck. When I reached the end of my doubled rope ends I had to batman up around 2 feet of rope (nearly impossible to feed lines in the 8 and gorilla up) I was five seconds away from cracking out some prussiks but I squeeze cinched the rope around my legs (painful) a couple of times so I could have hands free to untie the barrel knots. I had about a ten foot drop and figured I could handle that onto a bad rock covered sloper. I got back in descent mode and slid to the end then let go of the brake hand. I hit that sloper on my feet and shot down slope like a rocket barely staying on my feet for my best ever sagebrush/boulder hurdles 50 meter dash. I got lucky. I could see a real bad turf rash or worse happening on a sloper, on a flat deck I would have just augered in with both ankles.
Lesson learned, check carefully before headed down line into the wild blue yonder. I could have used a rescue 8 to secure a hands free position but mostly I rap now with an ATC anyways. A spotter on the deck could have saved me grief as well.

Reminds me of this:

2002-388 - Zion NP (UT) - Rescue – Pine Creek
Park staff responded to a report of a rappelling accident in Pine Creek Canyon at 3:30 p.m. on August 11th. A 50-year-old man had been descending into the slot canyon from the north rim when he found that his rope end did not reach to the canyon floor. When he attempted to stop his downward movement, he turned upside down and rappelled off the end of his rope, falling 15 feet to the canyon floor. EMS personnel reached him at 5 p.m. and provided ALS. The man and an attendant were raised 100 feet to the rim. Rescuers got him to the trailhead at 9 p.m. He was taken by park ambulance to a hospital in St. George, where he was found to have fractures to four ribs and to his left femur in two locations. The leader of the five-person group was issued a citation for not having a canyoneering permit.

[Iceaxe]

UPDATE: I spoke with David Cicotello (Louis' brother) today and the medical examiner's investigation concluded that Louis died as a result of fatal internal trauma suffered from the fall.

[ratagonia]

Sad... Tom

[ratagonia]

More than a decade ago I took a 50 meter rope to a 30 meter rappel in the days before things were well written about with this sort of thing. I put 'er through the anchor and let both ends fly. I had no way to check if the rope was down due to a wicked overhang. I did have barrel knots at the end of my lines because I had no intention to rap off the end and couldn't tie them together because of twist generated by the 8. I was "Aussie" style face first because it was a unseen landing with a gnarly overhang so I just put tension on the 8 and walked off. I found myself at the end of the line literally 10 feet off the deck. When I reached the end of my doubled rope ends I had to batman up around 2 feet of rope (nearly impossible to feed lines in the 8 and gorilla up) I was five seconds away from cracking out some prussiks but I squeeze cinched the rope around my legs (painful) a couple of times so I could have hands free to untie the barrel knots. I had about a ten foot drop and figured I could handle that onto a bad rock covered sloper. I got back in descent mode and slid to the end then let go of the brake hand. I hit that sloper on my feet and shot down slope like a rocket barely staying on my feet for my best ever sagebrush/boulder hurdles 50 meter dash. I got lucky. I could see a real bad turf rash or worse happening on a sloper, on a flat deck I would have just augered in with both ankles.

Lesson learned, check carefully before headed down line into the wild blue yonder. I could have used a rescue 8 to secure a hands free position but mostly I rap now with an ATC anyways. A spotter on the deck could have saved me grief as well.

And what would you do now?

Tom

[Mojave Silence]

How many people here go into any technical canyon with one rope ? Frequently/unfrequently/never?

[ratagonia]

How many people here go into any technical canyon with one rope ? Frequently/unfrequently/never?

I do, when appropriate. What specifically do you mean?

I do not usually carry a "backup rope" or "backup set of ropes".

Tom

[Iceaxe]

I do not usually carry a "backup rope" or "backup set of ropes".

x2

[Cirrus2000]

It depends on how familiar I am with the canyon and its hazards. There are times when I'll take 3x the longest rap (as opposed to double, for rap and pull.) And I'm sure many will take one rope for the longest rap, and a shorter rope for the more common length raps. I've had my long rope get stuck in a huge waterfall, where ascent would have been extremely difficult due to the water flow. Fortunately we had a second, shorter rope, that got us down to an easy exit.

So, I guess the answer for me is, "sometimes" - though I don't think of it as a backup.

[ratagonia]

Mojave Silence: the nomenclature here is to say how much rope you bring as a multiple of the longest rappel. In order to get the ropes back, clearly, one would need to carry 2X. When guiding, we carry at least 3X. Whether that is in one piece or several pieces, or what, is generally beside the point. So I think your question, in the nomenclature, would be "do you carry 3x". And the answer of course is, "It Depends".

Tom

It depends on how familiar I am with the canyon and its hazards. There are times when I'll take 3x the longest rap (as opposed to double, for rap and pull.) And I'm sure many will take one rope for the longest rap, and a shorter rope for the more common length raps. I've had my long rope get stuck in a huge waterfall, where ascent would have been extremely difficult due to the water flow. Fortunately we had a second, shorter rope, that got us down to an easy exit.

So, I guess the answer for me is, "sometimes" - though I don't think of it as a backup.

[ratagonia]

And what would you do now?

Tom

With no answer, ...

Good technique includes covering when the information you have is not correct, or the gear you brought is not quite right. "Covering" means you are perhaps inconvenienced, but still alive.

Tom