SUGGESTIONS! For Coyote Buttes area

[Richie]

Sorry to hear about that. But going into a slot canyon wasn't also the best idea. That's something really dangerous.

I would like to add that permits for the Wave are next to impossible. The couple of days I was there at the contact station, there were about 50 bodies for 10 permits.

That's not too bad. Look at 4/17 on this picture



And there were even days with 100+ people.

[abirken]

OKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKK Chere pretty much covered everything about the conditions in her big reply above. So my issue is that I took my kids out of school, bought enough food to last the 4 days I originally planned on staying and drove 8 hours to get there but had to turn around after 3 days. If I wanted to just go camping, I would have stopped in Moab, not taken the kids out of school and called it good but I had bigger plans. On my list:
The Wave- didn't get a permit
Buckskin Gulch- shoulder deep water
Paria Narrows- Waist deep water
Wirepass-attempted twice in crappy weather
Yellow Rock- road closed due to impassable conditions
Toadstools- accomplished
Waeweap hoodoos- road closed due to impassable conditions

As you can imagine, I was pretty frustrated.

Another note- maybe if I would have been with just another adult, we would have lasted the duration of the trip and continued to find other options for adventure?? Not sure to be honest. But with 3 kids needing attention in blowing snow, sand storms, cold, rain and wind was NO FUN for mom. Oh and we determined that you Freezefesters are animals. HAHA!!!!

OFF SOAP BOX NOW!!!!!!! On a positive note- we did get SOME blue sky (briefly), some fun night photos of our camp (thank you Summit), and I got to see Chere for 24 hours and share good beer together. Almost every trip I have organized in the last few years has run seamlessly so I have to remember that. It's rare to have one that doesn't go as planned so I consider myself lucky. I crossed this off my bucket list and IF I attempt this again, I will make it just a trip with adults and later in the year.

Oh and the lottery system is a JOKEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE........a flipping JOKE! I was laughing out loud when I saw how it actually went down that morning and didn't even want to try again the next morning. They should really re-consider how that is done.

[ststephen]

Admirable job making the most out of not-so-great conditions. Kids learn from this stuff too. Can't wait to hang with you in June!

[blueeyes]

Umm yeah Freezefest is something I will never attempt! I LOVE the snow but I hate HATE being cold.

Another day Alison! It will work out and the skies will be blue.

[jdgibney]

It looks like you guys still managed to make the most of it. Sorry the weather put a big damper on things :(

The shot of the kiddos at the toadstools is awesome, and I see some good time smiles in there!

We lucked out with the weather flying out from the east coast for a quick 3 day trip. Its not much consolation right now, but if you can get back there in January or even early February, you can get permits easier for CBN. when I got ours, there were lots of available dates (for january I went online Oct 15th and the days not claimed were open up and there were plenty). Obviously its still a crap-shoot with the weather, and we were extremely fortunate (though I was hoping for some clouds for photos :)

[zzyzx]

No pity here. It was an adventure the kids will never forget! Good character building experience. We broke camp in record time and they were absolute jewels with helping.

[arindam]

I left Kanab and headed to Zion on the 24th. There was quite a bit of snow in Kanab on 23rd night and that probably worsened things. I drove through Johnson Canyon on the 24th morning, and it was spectacular with all the snow.

For the Wahweap Hoodoos, were you planning to take Cottonwood Cyn. and BLM 431? I met a couple of photogs at the Toadstool Hoodoos and they bumped into a couple of rangers on BLM 431 around 7 am. 431 is off-limits now.

On my list:
The Wave- didn't get a permit
Buckskin Gulch- shoulder deep water
Paria Narrows- Waist deep water
Wirepass-attempted twice in crappy weather
Yellow Rock- road closed due to impassable conditions
Toadstools- accomplished
Waeweap hoodoos- road closed due to impassable conditions

As you can imagine, I was pretty frustrated.

[Philippe]

For the Wahweap Hoodoos, were you planning to take Cottonwood Cyn. and BLM 431? I met a couple of photogs at the Toadstool Hoodoos and they bumped into a couple of rangers on BLM 431 around 7 am. 431 is off-limits now.

Is there now a sign on BLM 431 telling that it is off-limits and did the couple of photographers get a fine for driving on this dirt road ?

Philippe

[tanya]

Yeah, its so much easier for those of us that live nearby. We choose the hike each weekend by the weather. You are troopers.

[arindam]

Phillipe,

I didn't dare drive on that road, but from what I was told, if the rangers catch you with photo gear (meaning, you are not a ranger and do not have administrative rights for driving on that road), you are in for some trouble. The guys I met hadn't unpacked their photo gear and just told the rangers that they were on a joy drive on that road :-) They also told me that they didn't see any signs forbidding travel on that road.

From what I heard, the rangers are strictly implementing that policy (I was told by a ranger at the Bigwater Visitor center that the fine was $300). May be, since Kane County recently won a road maintenance lawsuit, BLM has upped the ante on the roads which are legally within its complete jurisdiction. But whoever I met in Kanab and Page, people are darned pi**ed about these policies.

Arindam

Is there now a sign on BLM 431 telling that it is off-limits and did the couple of photographers get a fine for driving on this dirt road ?

Philippe

[tanya]

Many locals in Kanab feel they own all the land and that the GSENM should have never been made. They do not like any visitors on it. They want all the roads open for their use.

[peakbaggers]

Is this road 431 the one that brings you into the Wahweap Hoodoos from the west and terminates at the wash about a mile north of the formations? If so, is it still legal to Mountain bike in that way? You could knock that off in about an hour on a bike from what I remember.

[arindam]

Quite possibly, but I spoke with a few at the Holiday Inn in Kanab, and they were frustrated at the road closures being implemented.

Btw, if you remember, I had emailed you about the Many Pools hike in Zion. Never could find the trailhead, even after 6-7 attempts. Asked a bunch of people, nobody had a clue.

Arindam

May locals in Kanab feel they own the land that is not the GSENM and do not like any visitors on it. They want all the roads open for their use.

[arindam]

Yeah, that's the one. I think mountain biking (non-motorized travel) is legal, but I never did ask. May be someone should start offering horse ride trips.

Arindam

Is this road 431 the one that brings you into the Wahweap Hoodoos from the west and terminates at the wash about a mile north of the formations? If so, is it still legal to Mountain bike in that way? You could knock that off in about an hour on a bike from what I remember.

[tanya]

I did not get the email that you could not find it but its better to just post it here anyway. Did you look at the map?

http://www.zionnational-park.com/zion-trail-map-mp.htm

[antlerking]

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[americanhero]

we visited the hoodoos again last year and even with the rumors about BLM 431 we did the drive. There were no signs that it wasn't allowed to use the road and were the only ones that morning(there were only 10 billion No See Ums attacking us). We never asked a ranger about BLM 431 and if it's allowed to use that access to the hoodoos or not. Some friends of mine were told years ago that they couldn't use BLM 431, which wasn't true.
So right now I'm not sure what to believe.

[americanhero]

No pity here. It was an adventure the kids will never forget! Good character building experience. We broke camp in record time and they were absolute jewels with helping. Hope to try again sometime preferably with out snow or rain or freezing cold temperatures or at least if that is what I have to deal with I will book a hotel room.

at least you made the best of it and tried.
And guess what? Now you have a reason to come back and try again
And for next time I press both thumps for great conditions and maybe a Wave permit.
I don't know, but somehow I managed it in 2009 to get permits in the lottery twice. Once in June, once again in December.
Our December trip reminds me a little bit of your experiences. We went a day after a snow storm and it was awesome. But the drive back on Houserock Valley Road was awful. The whole surface was wet because of the molten snow during the day and it was so slippery and soapy. Our car was caked with mud.



Not so funny...

[arindam]

I think they are serious this time. If I had already been done with the photography, perhaps I wouldn't mind getting caught and pay a fine (I was told that I could even be issued a citation banning me from visiting NP's/Monuments for a year, go figure!), but what if I got caught before I had even taken the pictures? I wouldn't risk a double whammy.

we visited the hoodoos again last year and even with the rumors about BLM 431 we did the drive. There were no signs that it wasn't allowed to use the road and were the only ones that morning(there were only 10 billion No See Ums attacking us). We never asked a ranger about BLM 431 and if it's allowed to use that access to the hoodoos or not. Some friends of mine were told years ago that they couldn't use BLM 431, which wasn't true.
So right now I'm not sure what to believe.

[americanhero]

I think they are serious this time. If I had already been done with the photography, perhaps I wouldn't mind getting caught and pay a fine (I was told that I could even be issued a citation banning me from visiting NP's/Monuments for a year, go figure!), but what if I got caught before I had even taken the pictures? I wouldn't risk a double whammy.

wow, that sounds really serious...
At least I have a couple of pics, visited the area several times. But it's very frustrating as well.
Because I love to visit places like Rainbow Valley and the other Hoodoo areas nearby.