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Thread: Down Blue John and out Horseshoe

  1. #61
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian in SLC View Post
    If there wasn't some walking distance between the first and second drop, you could probably do the whole she-bang with a long single static line... None of the rappels are that long. With flow, pulling the ropes would be an issue, though.
    For what it's worth, here's what we do...

    At the first rappel, we macrame the tree at head level on canyon left. At the second rappel we run a 40' piece of webbing from the LARGE pine tree on canyon left (which is about 30' back from the lip). At the bottom of this 25' rap we make a decision, either stay on the rope and rap the next 10' drop in the watercourse (if the flow isn't too strong, ie usually after the first week of June) or pull the rope and re-rig off those blocks on canyon right (during really strong flows, ie late May). When the flows have subsided for the season (after May/early June) we pull our webbing off those blocks on canyon right and just chain the 25' and the 10' drops together using the LARGE pine as the anchor. We pull the webbing off the blocks to reduce the visual impact since hikers can see that webbing while standing at the top of the second rappel. The next rappel, the overhanging one, we anchor with webbing and rapide around a large horn that pinches against an adjacent rock. This is the first anchor you come to which we leave fixed. It's bomber and tidy. The next rappel is anchored on canyon left with webbing and rapide in a pinch between a huge boulder and the canyon wall. It's bomber and tidy, too. We use this anchor to rap all the way to the top of the last rappel, where the Deadman anchor is. This rappel includes the 20' of downclimbable boulders which then lead into the nice flume for the remaining 30'. I've noticed some folks set up an intermediate anchor at the bottom of the boulder section and start of the flume. This is probably the chockstone anchor that jman removed? It's definitely not necessary to stop there, nor is it a very comfortable place to linger due to all the spray there. The third and last anchor we leave fixed in the canyon is the Deadman. I've been in there during some very high flows and have never seen the water come close to compromising the anchor. Each year in May or June we rebuild that anchor. From the Deadman we use two independent strands of webbing which come to a common point at a rapide. From here we use one strand of webbing going to the lip with a rapide. We use the two independent strands for redundancy and we bring them to a single point to facilitate the periodic changing out of the single strand going to the lip. While the water doesn't reach the Deadman anchor, it does batter the single strand going to the lip so we change that one more frequently. From day one we rigged this last rappel this way so that once you pull the ropes, the previously tensioned single strand of webbing falls back from the lip, into the creek and out of view from those below. Believe it or not, there are many folks who hike to the base of this waterfall to hang out and they have been doing so long before any of us were there (that's how that trail in to/out of the canyon came to be). They'd rather not see slings draped over the lip from the Deadman or a pair of bolts and slings where RP is enthusiastically pointing.

    Personally, I don't find Deadman anchors ghetto, but that's just my opinion. I'll admit that a proliferation of multicolored tat is ghetto there, but the anchor itself is fine. Some might even see a well built Deadman with minimal slings and hardware as a thing of beauty!? I try to keep that anchor aesthetic, though it's inevitable that others will add webbing, add rocks, add hardware...to the point it looks trashy.

    So, in summary, there are three fixed anchors we maintain; at the top of the overhang, the bottom of the overhang and the Deadman. Every one of them is bomber and, dare I say, elegant. Despite only three fixed anchors in the canyon, the longest rap is 65' and that's from the bottom of the overhang to the Deadman. By the way, we do retrieve our 40' piece of rope from the pine at the top of the second rap on our way back to the trailhead so nothing is left behind that is visible to hikers.

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  3. #62
    Quote Originally Posted by Iceaxe View Post
    Matt, are you guiding BJ? if so, I can send you some clients.
    Thanks for the leads, Shane. Hate to sound greedy, but they'd better be prepared to pay a LOT of money! I've endured that slog twice and I'm still trying to figure out what on earth possessed me to go that second time? Must've been a cute girl or something...

  4. #63
    Quote Originally Posted by moabmatt View Post
    Personally, I don't find Deadman anchors ghetto, but that's just my opinion. I'll admit that a proliferation of multicolored tat is ghetto there, but the anchor itself is fine.
    The deadman anchor didn't do so well throughout the winter. The large stack of rocks was kinda loose and jumbley, and, when I pulled on the sling, it came partly out. We stacked a few rocks onto it to shore it up a tad, but, with a super solid ice screw, I wasn't worried. The smaller stack seemed kind of solid, but...we didn't really test it much. We were coming up anyhow.

    Over time, as that stack of rocks gets loose, and the occasional flood hits the rocks, then, I wonder if the rocks will be gone.

    That's good stuff, Matt, and, I appreciate the dialog and your POV on the topic. I think keeping the anchors non visible to hikers is super. A well camo'd bolted anchor can do that too. If you located the anchor a bit more around a corner, then, you'll get the dreaded rope grooves. You solution is pretty good for visual impact/viewshed.

    Was wondering what that middle fixed anchor was. Buried in the ice, and, seemed pretty burly. The rapide was slightly open, which, was weird. Easy to tighten.

    I don't find unnaturally large stacks of rock with slings sticking out of them a particularly elegant anchor, or, a thing of beauty. When you're not lazy, then, they need to be dug up and re-buried, and, doing that kind of heavy handed construction in a canyon just doesn't jibe with my wilderness ethics (ha ha). As a community anchor in a popular canyon...well...sooner or later someone will trust it, and, it'll blow and they'll get hurt. These types of anchors fail in the climbing world all the time (read ANAM from the last 10 years and see the accidents...there are plenty).

    I think from a liability standpoint...guiding clients...wow...I wouldn't but, I don't have a dog in that hunt. If you had an accident...well, that's a huge risk for you.

    Thanks for the time, Matt, and, appreciate the info you gave us in our failed attempt last June.

    Cheers!

  5. #64
    FWIW: I think you have to complete the hellish slog out Horseshoe to really appreciate what Ralston did.

  6. #65
    Anyone know how difficult it is to re-ascend the lower slot from the big drop? Don't have any equipment for a rappel, but I would really love to see lower Bluejohn

  7. #66
    Canyon Wrangler canyoncaver's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wasatchghost View Post
    Anyone know how difficult it is to re-ascend the lower slot from the big drop? Don't have any equipment for a rappel, but I would really love to see lower Bluejohn
    It's not too bad, but there is a moderate upclimb and ledge-walk required.

  8. #67
    I was there 4/17/11. There is an anchor with a sling and rappel ring already set up but I'm not sure I would trust the set up as it is now (we didn't rappel). There was also a three-bolt setup which i think is more commonly used, but you will have to bring webbing. There was also a single bolt with a rap ring but I wouldn't trust it because there is no redundancy.

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