Subway & Zion Narrows in April

[Tcon]

Good Day Everybody,

Not sure if this is the place to post this question. I am heading down to Utah/Arizona to make an attempt at photographing the "Grand Circle". My first stop is Zion and I already have my permit for the subway. From experience, what is the likelihood that I will be able to do these hikes in the beginning of April without the water being too high?

Thanks,
Rene

[trackrunner]

3 years ago I did the subway with a smaller snow pack in April and it was flowing strong. so to answer your question it could be flowing strong in april. if doing the hike from the top down it will no longer be a semi-technical canyon but a real class 3 canyon. but if doing it from the bottom up you should be able to hike to the goodies from the bottom.

good chance the gateway to the narrows will be close with the water level above 120cfs.

don't let this discourage your trip you can still take great pictures during that time of year.

best of luck

[tanya]

That's quite a project. Are you doing it for a book?

[Wasatch]

The water temp in both those canyons will be very cold that time of year.

[Tcon]

Thanks for the info!

Since I started photography I have always been enamoured with this area, I decided to make it a personal goal to get there. The past couple years my plans have always fell short. When I found out that we are expecting our first child in August, I decided to give it another shot. The stars have aligned and now i'll be able to get there for 2 weeks. Flights and rentals have been booked, some permits have been acquired and the itinerary has been made.

I understand that one can explore this area for a lifetime and bearly scratch the surface. I just hope that my whirlwind tour will let me see most areas that I have always wanted to see.

I hope that my photographic results are bountiful enough to fill a book, but as of now its strictly a personal adventure.

Thanks,
Rene

[tanya]

Very nice Rene. Zion is quite unpredictable in April as you already know or you would not be asking and the guys give you good advice. This time of year its always good to have a back-up plan --- just in case.

[Tcon]

In terms of unpredictable, do you mean high water levels, flash floods or both? Almost every article or book I read gives a disclaimer on flash floods. They scare me the most. I have no problem admitting defeat with high water levels but to get caught off guard by a flash flood really worries me. After all, its not successful trip until you make it home safe.

[trackrunner]

flash floods can happen every month which is usually the result of a heavy rain storm. more likely and common when a monsoon type patern in mid July, August, and early September.

for your trip in April you will have sustained floods from snow melt of a deap snow pack. these floods and high waters can last a few weeks to a couple months.

as a point of reference 2010 the narrows didn't open for hiking until June. This year the snow pack is deaper and has more water than 2010.

[Tcon]

How about the subway? Would it be blown out as well?

Are the slot canyons in the other areas of utah/arizona affected by runoff or are they powered by the storms?

[shaggy125]

I did a quick search of the Virgin Rivers average CFS for the month of April at the gauge in Springdale over the last ten years. Here is what I found:

2010 - 256 CFS
2009 - 185 CFS
2008 - 162 CFS
2007 - 75 CFS
2006 - 376 CFS
2005 - 618 CFS
2004 - 144 CFS
2003 - 73 CFS
2002 - 43 CFS
2001 - 198 CFS

The park service closes the narrows once the river gauge reads above 140 CFS (you can't get a permit to hike from the top down if it is over 120 CFS) so chances of doing it in April are small, especially when this year the mountains above Zion have a pretty healthy snow pack. You may be able to hike to the Subway from the bottom though but there also may be too much water in there as well, you probably won't know until you get here.

[tanya]

Great info Shaggy!!!

These links are handy that I have on my weather page.
Southern Utah
Flash Flood info.
North Fork Virgin River
East Fork Virgin River
Left Fork of North Creek
Flash Flood Info

[Tcon]

Fantastic information! I will keep my eye peeled on the levels just to see how it's progressing :)

That was another question I had. Everybody says check the weather before you go, but what if you are in the middle of nowhere and don't have internet access!? Is here a phone number to call or anything along those lines.

What would you do if you were backpacking on the egypt bench and you were interested in visiting the slots. How would you know if its safe?

Thanks!

[trackrunner]

How about the subway? Would it be blown out as well?

Are the slot canyons in the other areas of utah/arizona affected by runoff or are they powered by the storms?

The window on when the subway is absolutely not negotiable is much shorter than the narrows.

I did the subway top down in April 2008 that had less of a snow pack than this year. The runoff turned the canyon from a semi technical canyon to a real deal heavy flow class c canyon. The problem was I was not expecting those type of conditions and went a little unprepared. I also had to help out groups that were majorly unprepared without wetsuits and ropes and anchor material. The day became a challenge to help get these other people out safely with creative anchors to stay out of the water flow.

Unless you have training and experience in class c technical canyoneering, I'd recommend doing the Subway as an out and back from the bottom up. There were people that did that the same day and were fine if they had shoes with good tracking on wet slick-rock. You will have multiple stream crossings but can make it to the "Subway" features.

all canyons are effected to run of to some degree by runoff. it depends on elevation and drainage size. the higher the elevation and the larger the drainage the longer the runoff and higher the volume. The narrows has perhaps the largest drainage and a highest elevation hence the reason it can be in a hiking flood stage for so long. some canyons at lower elevations and smaller drainages shed the snow pack as quickly as a day with warm sunny weather after the latest snow storm.

[trackrunner]

That was another question I had. Everybody says check the weather before you go, but what if you are in the middle of nowhere and don't have internet access!? Is here a phone number to call or anything along those lines.

you can check posted weather forecast at the visitor center, back country office, or ranger office. forecast should be reasonably accurate for a few days.

[tanya]

It's not as primitive as you think. As Shaun said, but also you should get internet in your hotel room. The Lodge probably does not have it.

Does the VC guys? Most hotels you can even sit in the parking lot and pick it up.

[Jammer]

One should always be aware of the possibility of a flash flood, but realistically the chances of encountering one in April is HIGHLY unlikely. The bigger problem will definitely be sustained high/cold water due to run-off.

Also... it's good to know your drainages. For instance, the Egypt Bench you mentioned has a relatively tiny drainage with no feeds from the mountains. Here you would be fine w/o seeing a weather report as long as you check the skies before getting into the slot. Same would be true for Dry Fork slots. Anything more extended (ie Choprock, Death Hollow, etc.) you'd want a little more of a report.

I don't mean to be too nonchalant with my attitude, but with a little education and caution there is no need to be overly afraid of flash floods.

- Jamal

[Scott P]

Even if floods aren't a problem, I would guess that much of the Subway would have a fair amount of snow that early.

[Tcon]

I really appreciate all the information, it's beyond helpful. I know my neck of the woods fairly well. Other than being unprepared, the largest threat here is predators. It's such a different world over there. I can't wait for the experience.