Questions about backpacking the Narrows

[blueeyes]

My sister-in-law and I are planning a backpack trip through the Narrows this summer. There are 12 going 4 will be kids. 11-14. We would like to go the end of June but are concerned about how much hiking is in the water. I know that how wet you get depends on the rate the river is flowing and we can't go if it is flowing over 120 cfs. What we want to know is approximately how much of the hike are you in water? After swimming or getting wet are there spots you can dry out and warm up a bit?

She and I have both been through Subway and know how cold we got in the water and how thankful we were to warm up in the sunny areas. We are concerned about the kids. They can handle being wet and swimming but should they get cold are there places we can count on some sun shining into the canyon to warm them up.

The other option is to hold off and go in August. July is out because of another vacation plan.

Thanks

[ibenick]

So I'm sure there are lots of people on here that have done the Narrows more than I have but this is my experience. We did it in late September and I would say that almost the entire hike was in water except for the first couple of miles from the drop point. I'm 6'4 and there were quite a few spots where I was waist deep and a few where we had to put our backpacks over our head. I would not bring children on this hike but if you do make sure their packs are waterproof and floatable. Also, I bought 5.10 canyoneers when I did it and I used trekking poles. I wouldn't do it without either, the rocks in the water are like greasy bowling balls. Here's a pic of my buddy coming through one of the deepest sections.

[blueeyes]

This is good to know! I think I will reconsider taking Sarah. Love any more tidbits about this hike.

[ibenick]

Here's a couple more things I remember.

It's not a super easy hike. We reserved site 12 so we had roughly 12 miles that first day and 4 on the second. I remember being pretty hammered from all the river hiking. I also remember kicking myself around Site 8 that we had more distance to cover. If I did it again I would not choose site 12 again, something in the middle would be much better. I don't know what group size limits are there but 10 or 12 people could be a real challenge. The camp sites are on tiny slivers of land and there was barely enough room to set up two small tents. As far as temperatures, it wasn't bad, like I said, we were there in late September. The trees were turning and it was definitely beanie weather at night. The water itself was not very cold, never had any need to warm up but YMMV, I'm a big guy with lots of built-in insulation.

[blueeyes]

12 is a lot. Me and my two, Jen, her husband and son, two misc friends, Christine her husband and daughter. Jen would like to keep the group together for camping but I wondered if it would be better to split into two groups for camping. The only campsite that accommodates 12 is site 12 and my concern was being able to hike that far with the kids in one day. I would rather split it up as evenly as possible.

The kids and I have started hiking at the minimum once a week to start conditioning them. Our goal this year is 52 hikes.

I did a search here on Bogley and found several good threads with pics. Still would love more info.

In anybodies opinion that cares to answer which are the best campsites?

[ratagonia]

12 is a lot. Me and my two, Jen, her husband and son, two misc friends, Christine her husband and daughter. Jen would like to keep the group together for camping but I wondered if it would be better to split into two groups for camping. The only campsite that accommodates 12 is site 12 and my concern was being able to hike that far with the kids in one day. I would rather split it up as evenly as possible.

The kids and I have started hiking at the minimum once a week to start conditioning them. Our goal this year is 52 hikes.

I did a search here on Bogley and found several good threads with pics. Still would love more info.

In anybodies opinion that cares to answer which are the best campsites?

I have only done the hike from the top and through three times, once as a day trip and twice as an overnight.

With a big group, there are only a very few campsites that will work, maybe only one, #12. That said, if it is late, and you get to an empty campsite where you can squeeze everyone in, stay there. In the unlikely case that they bust your for 'wrong campsite', contest it (court is in St George). You have the right to do what is safe, in your opinion, for your group.

Ok, off the soapbox. End of June might be very viable, or it might be burly. You will want the river somewhat down from the 120 cfs level, maybe 80-100 cfs at most. Let's divide the trip into three parts - the first part to Deep Creek is more "normal hiking" with many stream crossings. Toward the end there are some sections of wall-to-wall river. The first part of this can be very sunny (sunscreen essential), but toward the end you are likely to be in the shade full time.

The second section from Deep Creek to Campsite 12 (or Big Springs) is mostly walking beside the river, with many river crossings. The water level triples at Deep Creek (ie, Deep Creek is 2X as big as the North Fork). In this section, there are almost always sections of woods on one or both sides, but there is a required river crossing every 5-10 minutes. Almost all the campsites are in this section. There is not much sun in this section. Only a few of the river crossings are likely to go to waist deep.

The third section from Big Springs down is shorter, but is mostly IN the river, with river wall to wall, at least to Orderville. No sun. I have always taken a substantial break up Orderville to get away from the noise and find some sun to warm up in. You may have done most of this section before.

The river changes from year to year, but there are usually not any required swims. But there is almost always wading to waist deep (for full size adults), which can quickly become full swims for smaller people. I think the key to enjoying the Narrows is to embrace the water, so be prepared for swimming and deep wading, especially in the third section.

Preparation includes having good personal gear = canyoneer shoes with neo socks so the feet do not get too cold, quick-drying clothing including shorts, decent pack with good drybags for the gear, poles (downhill ski length works well), and plenty of fleecy tops to pull on when you get cold, including a very warm hat. When you come to a deep spot (ie, your largest adult has checked it out), then the kid's (and some adult's) warm fleeces go into a dry bag for that crossing. A quick snack at this point is good to "stoke the fires". Past the crossing, the fleece goes back on.

I think the most important point is to NOT bring too much gear. This is rough hiking, and too much weight makes it way more difficult. You do not need a tent! It is not going to rain (or you would not be in there, right?). A very light tarp will allow you to keep the sleep area clean. A little bug repellent should be carried in the unlikely case that bugs show up. Less is More!

The kids will need to be trained in how to swim with a pack on. Fasten the waistbelt low and tight. Lean back against the pack, it floats. Calmly paddle towards shallow water. These last two points together = the kids should be carrying very little weight.

A great trip for kids, especially with other kids, which often helps keep the kids focused and competition can keep them from whining. If the kids are old enough, you might want to teach them the phrase: "would you like some cheese with that whine???" My nephew enjoyed that phrase immensely, once he realized that his whining would not ever result in my doing anything to fix his 'problem' (well, unless it was a REAL problem).

But, a group of twelve could be impossible. Adults - perhaps. With several kids - likely to turn this into a 4-day trip. An early start is also called for - meaning 7 am AT Chamberlain Ranch, not 7 am leaving St George. There are some casual places to camp along the North Fork Road I could give you directions to - but camping at Chamberlain Ranch is not an option. You can camp at the parking lot for Orderville, I am pretty sure.

Tom

[blueeyes]

Tom Thanks!!!

This is exactly what I was looking for. I already told Jenni that we could rent the shoes, socks and any other gear we might need from you and sent her a link to your site.

Thanks for the idea about teaching the kids to swim with a pack on. We will work on that. After you description Sarah might still get to go. It sounds more doable then wall to wall water for 90% of the trip.

[Brian in SLC]

This is exactly what I was looking for.

Yeah, Tom, great description.

I'll echo the "less is more" thing. No tent. Try to get super light sleeping bags. I usually don't carry a bag (just a .5lb bivy sack), or, one that's in the pound range at most. It'll be pretty warm during the day, and, if you're on an overnighter, only one night to endure.

If you haven't embraced some of the ultralight camping stuff...do so. If you're not sleeping in all your clothes, you brought too much stuff. Synthetic stuff drys fast.

Long hike for folks that aren't that fit and used to mileage. Especially if you have some slow water walkers. Add in heavy packs with overnight gear, especially rental stuff you're not used to, rented shoes, blisters, and, this could be a real tough grind for folks.

If you book a campsite, start extra early and push to make it there. Nothing would suck worse than seeing a group of 12 totally fried folks (with kids) show up at your campsite at dark and insist on crowding in. That's just not fair to anyone.

Great hike. But, one to be enjoyed and not just endured.