Family wants answers in police shooting that left unarmed man dead

[accadacca]

Wow! Interesting. Did you hear about this?

Dashcam VIDEO: http://www.ksl.com/?sid=13224585&nid=148

Nichols can be heard shouting, "Freeze or I'll shoot you. Freeze! *Bang*Bang* Freeze. Wade, I'm going to shoot you, get down on the [expletive] ground."

What Perez says next to Pennington still haunts the family: "You're dead, mother [expletive] !"

"How could you, with any type of conscience, yell at somebody like that?" Dennis Pennington asks.

Other officers arrive within minutes.

Nichols can be heard saying, "I don't know man, there goes my job."

As officers talk about it, Perez motions to his dashcam, which is still recording and Nichols says, "Oh no."

Perez responds, "Sorry man."

[Deathcricket]

Yeah I give the officer a pass on this. Adrenaline is running so I can see the "You're dead, mother [expletive] !" and the guy had 22 counts of burglary, was running from the cops, rammed patrol cars and slammed into a person's house. I think a car should be considered a lethal weapon and endangering the public. How many innocent people die from car chases every year? Pedestrians on the street, other drivers, etc. The officers use of deadly force to stop this driver and safeguard innocent public is authorized in my book.

[Jaxx]

Sounds like he had a drug problem that he was feeding with robbery. Was he on drugs when the chase was happening?

This could have been avoided all together but it sounds like the victim has been making some very poor lifestyle decisions. 41 is too old to be acting like that. He made the Police feel like shots were necessary. What that the right decision for the Police? It really doesn't matter for the victim, he is dead now.
It's not that I don't trust Police. It's that I don't trust other people in general with my life. You put other people in that situation and some will pull the trigger, good decision or not you are still dead.

His brother said he has payed his debt to society? Sounds like he didn't go to drug rehab, and was scheduled to go to jail. I wonder what he did to repay.

[hank moon]

Yeah I give the officer a pass on this. Adrenaline is running so I can see the "You're dead, mother [expletive] !" and the guy had 22 counts of burglary, was running from the cops, rammed patrol cars and slammed into a person's house. I think a car should be considered a lethal weapon and endangering the public. How many innocent people die from car chases every year? Pedestrians on the street, other drivers, etc. The officers use of deadly force to stop this driver and safeguard innocent public is authorized in my book.

you are missing a key detail: he HAD been stopped before the officers killed him. for a libertarian, you seem to give (abusive) gov't authority a pass quite often!

[Jaxx]

you are missing a key detail: he HAD been stopped before the officers killed him

The officer said he "lunged at him" and he shot. The brother has a good point though. How would he hear him if his window was up and sirens are going? Not important if the victim really lunged at the cop.

[hank moon]

"stopped" addressing the argument that his vehicle was a lethal weapon. the general threat to others that dcket mentioned had been neutralized.


officers are equipped with tools and training to deal with "lunging" in non-lethal ways. they should have been used in this case. even the officer understood that he had screwed up with the comment about losing his job.

[Sombeech]

The cop could have just shut his mouth and been totally justified.

Payed his debt to society? I'm assuming he meant up until this incident....

When he's reporting he got rammed those 3 times, total BS. The cop needs a scolding for that one. But in the end, it's good that the taxpayers aren't buying this criminal anymore meals.

[Jaxx]

I think it takes it to a new level if you are on a high speed chase. The cops don't know what you have in your car with you and you have already shown you are an idiot who will take it to the next level to get away. Lunging was the last bad decision in a line of poor decisions.

Do I think cops should just be given the green light to open fire on someone. No way. But even if you think the police are in the wrong. You act nicely and then live to sue them later.

[hank moon]

jaxx, in essence you are saying that the cops' bad behavior is justified by the criminal's - would you agree with that?

[Deathcricket]

you are missing a key detail: he HAD been stopped before the officers killed him. for a libertarian, you seem to give (abusive) gov't authority a pass quite often!

I don't see the contradiction at all. I'm all for peoples rights as long as they don't infringe on another person's rights. I'm closer to Anarchist than Libertarian I would say. I've yet to meet a Libertarian who doesn't authorize the use of deadly force to stop bad guys, or owns a couple guns to protect their home and property from intruders. If I can shoot someone endangering my life, I don't have a problem with an officer shooting someone else endangering theirs or the general public. If anything, a car is a lethal object and should be treated as such when used in this manner.

Also, he had not stopped, he ran into the side of a house and WAS forced to stop by hitting an unmovable object. Just because his car wasn't moving any more doesn't imply cooperation on his part. If he pulled over on the side of the road we would be having a completely different conversation. We don't see the shooting portion so we don't know exactly what happened. But the parts we do see show him endangering the lives of the officers and public in general. 22 counts of robbery, driving recklessly through a neighborhood, and ramming police cars? It's dark and they don't know if he has a gun or not till after the fact. Shoot first and ask questions later.

What if he had crashed through that house wall and killed a couple children sleeping in their beds? What if someone was walking their dogs and he plowed them over? A car is a lethal weapon and should be treated as such. What if he had a gun after he stopped and started shooting officers? You weren't there and it's so easy to pass judgment after the fact. Those officers have a rough job and never know what kind of sick F#@%'s they are going to be dealing with. They get a split second to make a decision then have to live with it, or get killed in the process.

[hank moon]

i find the bloodlust in this forum to be appalling. cops can do no wrong unless - what? in every instance where cops experience some uncertainty about a potential threat (e.g. does that guy have a gun?), that uncertainty is erased through killing an often unarmed person. i think cops should be held to a higher standard than that. you guys don't. K.

peace

[Jaxx]

jaxx, in essence you are saying that the cops' bad behavior is justified by the criminal's - would you agree with that?

Absolutely not.

I am saying that he could have avoided it but instead put his life in another persons hands. The other person decided to shoot. Bad decision or not he put the officer in a place where the officer felt the need to have to decide.

Drugs allow people to do stupid things.

We need a couch quarterback smiley.

[jman]

i find the bloodlust in this forum to be appalling. cops can do no wrong unless - what? in every instance where cops experience some uncertainty about a potential threat (e.g. does that guy have a gun?), that uncertainty is erased through killing an often unarmed person. i think cops should be held to a higher standard than that. you guys don't. K.

peace

Did u hear the news about the homeowner in SLC with two little girls who shot and killed the 19yr old kid who was breaking into his house? Do you believe that the homeowner was justified in killing the guy in order to protect his family? Or do you believe he should be punished by a few years in prison? Or do you believe that he should get the death penalty for murdering a other person (since he didn't see that the criminal didn't have a weapon)??
Just curious...

Just another idea, one of my friends said that let's say you were this guy and gave the robber a warning shot or shot him in the leg. What if then the robber pulls a gun on you and kills you? So much for that. So my friend was saying to avoid the risk - always shoot to kill when protecting your family. And if you do, you are fully protected by the law in using deadly force. I just thought that was interesting perspective.

[asdf]

Drugs allow people to do stupid things.

I keep reading the story but cant seem to find where it says he was using drugs.

The cop could have just shut his mouth and been totally justified.

Payed his debt to society? I'm assuming he meant up until this incident....

When he's reporting he got rammed those 3 times, total BS. The cop needs a scolding for that one. But in the end, it's good that the taxpayers aren't buying this criminal anymore meals.

and what if that was your son or bother?

[Jaxx]

I keep reading the story but cant seem to find where it says he was using drugs.

It said on top of the 22 burglary, etc charges he was ordered to go to drug rehab. It also said he didn't go to rehab.

[asdf]

It said on top of the 22 burglary, etc charges he was ordered to go to drug rehab. It also said he didn't go to rehab.

so were just assuming his was a drug addict on a bender trying to scrpe up some cash to feed his habits ..oh ok

for conversations sake lets assume the cop was ordered to go to rehab one point in his life, would your opinion change then?


"22 burglaries" coming from KSL.com could very well mean he stole 22 pixie sticks when he was 15

[ilanimaka]

Unfortunately, you never "shoot to kill" or say you were lest you be brought up on charges for seeking to kill the perp. Instead, you shoot to stop. If, by chance, the perp also dies from being stopped, then you are still clear because you were trying to stop him, not kill him.

[Jaxx]

so were just assuming his was a drug addict on a bender trying to scrpe up some cash to feed his habits ..oh ok

I was ASSuming the 22 burglaries were most likely how he fed his habit. Seems a reasonable assumption.

Was he on drugs while in the chase. Don't know.

[jman]

Unfortunately, you never "shoot to kill" or say you were lest you be brought up on charges for seeking to kill the perp. Instead, you shoot to stop. If, by chance, the perp also dies from being stopped, then you are still clear because you were trying to stop him, not kill him.

To quote an attorney: "Utah's self-defense statute allows someone "to use deadly force to prevent the commission of a forcible felony; and burglary is a forcible felony. But...gun-toting homeowner[s] shouldn't go too far." He said, "Once that force against you has ceased, you have a responsibility to stop using force."

[asdf]

I was ASSuming the 22 burglaries were most likely how he fed his habit. Seems a reasonable assumption.
Was he on drugs while in the chase. Don't know.

so we could also ASSume that he was not on drugs and had been clean for years.. right?