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Thread: Don't Touch My Junk - TSA going too far?

  1. #1

    Don't Touch My Junk - TSA going too far?

    Summary of what happened:



    The guy opts out of the full body scan just like we can each legally do, and then is told he'll have a pat down where the guard would be touching his groin. The man says "If you touch my junk, I'll have you arrested". This didn't go too well with TSA.


    Full incident:


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  3. #2
    November 24 is National Opt Out Day. Anybody flying then?

  4. #3
    Don't worry bro. Ron Paul is on the case.


    http://www.lewrockwell.com/blog/lewr...tml#more-70061
    [QUOTE]November 17, 2010

    [B] [URL="http://www.lewrockwell.com/blog/lewrw/archives/70061.html"]Ron Paul
    Your safety is not my responsibility.

  5. #4
    This has gone much to far..... I'm willing to accept some risk of an attack in order to retain my rights and freedom.....

    Freedom is never free.....

  6. #5
    Moderator jman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Iceaxe View Post
    This has gone much to far..... I'm willing to accept some risk of an attack in order to retain my rights and freedom.....

    Freedom is never free.....
    Hmmmmmm....your statement is very interesting....I need to think about this for awhile. I guess I rather need to ponder the "at what cost or price should we make for security/safety".
    ●Canyoneering 'Canyon Conditions' @ www.candition.com
    ●Hiking Treks (my younger brother's website): hiking guides @ www.thetrekplanner.com
    "He who walks on the edge...will eventually fall."
    "There are two ways to die in the desert - dehydration and drowning." -overhearing a Park Ranger at Capitol Reef N.P.
    "...the first law of gear-dynamics: gear is like a gas - it will expand to fit the available space." -Wortman, Outside magazine.
    "SEND IT, BRO!!"

  7. #6
    i'd be tempted just opt out of the scan and the pat down and drop my trousers right there in line and let everyone take a look. that would probably scare enough of them to drop the policy.

    i'll gladly give up some security to maintain my rights.
    But if I agreed with you, we would both be wrong.

  8. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by denaliguide View Post
    drop my trousers right there in line and let everyone take a look.
    This might be considered terrorism from inside the airport.

  9. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Sombeech View Post
    This might be considered terrorism from inside the airport.
    yea, i'm sure it would cause some to lose sleep.
    But if I agreed with you, we would both be wrong.

  10. #9
    Drives me freakin' nuts.

    Here's what I said about it a couple of years ago:


    Quote Originally Posted by Cirrus2000 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by hank moon
    I went to France in 2000. On the plane with me I had a canyoneering knife, a regular-sized tube of toothpaste from home, nail cutters, a cigarette lighter, and so on. Coming back I brought several bottles of wine (carry-on, naturally) and a bottle of Chartreuse I'd gotten at the monastery. Those were the days...

    hank

    p.s. And, I wore all my clothes through security.
    We (sorry, you Americans) have to decide where the balance will be between personal freedoms and security. (Then we Canadians will follow your lead.)

    Like Hank, I used to carry lots of very handy things in my carry-on. And I didn't have to be at the airport at least 2 hours early for an international flight.

    One of the nicest things about my job is the camaraderie with pilots - I'd often have the chance to sit in the cockpit during take-off or landing, or at least spend a little time talking with the pilots en route. In fact we got biannual familiarization flights, in the cockpit the whole way, each way. Led to better understanding between controllers and pilots. Gone now.

    Personally, I'm willing to run the risk of being on the exceedingly rare airplane that is hijacked, if it permits me to travel the way I used to.

    There are about 28000 commercial flights per day in the US. Prior to 9/11, how many were hijacked daily?

    I wish I knew - it's tough to find numbers. One spot I looked said that approximately 22 aircraft were hijacked per year worldwide, with about 100 fatalities annually on average (from 1947 to 2001). According to Boeing, in 2000, the world's commercial jet airlines carried approximately 1.09 billion people on 18 million flights. So we're talking a one in 11 million chance of being one of those fatalities each time you get on a plane.

    Do you think that number would change significantly - upwards - after 9/11?

    Sure, take a swab of my laptop case, x-ray everything, whatever. But give me a break - if someone's desperate enough to get some liquid through security, do you think that this HUGE bureaucracy is going to stop them? (And have you seen the size of the TSA? Any idea what it costs? Have you seen them swagger?) A small plastic container full of liquid in one's pocket will not be caught - all one would have to do is look innocent while walking through the metal detector.

    Here is a quote from their website:

    TSA Week at a Glance (March 16 - March 22, 2009)
    • 14 passengers were arrested after investigations of suspicious behavior or fraudulent travel documents
    • 34 firearms found at checkpoints
    • 6 artfully concealed prohibited items found at checkpoints
    How many of those arrested were a hazard to their respective flights? How many of those firearms were intended for nefarious purposes? How many "artfully concealed prohibited items" do you think were not found? Over the course of 196000 flights? I might have artfully concealed items, myself, for the convenience of having them with me when I landed. Hell, I've "un-artfully" carried knives through at least twice (accidentally) and not been called on it.

    Is this worth the cost? Monetarily and in inconvenience? And that inconvenience factor carries a huge cost as well, for those traveling for a company, etc. etc.

    Bah....

  11. #10
    Whoa! This is going to be the first time Cirrus and I agree on a subject. I shall mark the occasion and open a box of wine in his honor.
    Your safety is not my responsibility.

  12. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Deathcricket View Post
    Whoa! I shall mark the occasion and open a box of wine in his honor.

    that's what i call going all out.
    But if I agreed with you, we would both be wrong.

  13. #12
    Awesome post Kev

    TSA is nothing but another way for our government to waste money by the boat load all in the name of the war on terror.

  14. #13

  15. #14
    Moderator jman's Avatar
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    So those who reject the idea of the TSA or security handling...

    How would you like to see it changed or done?
    ●Canyoneering 'Canyon Conditions' @ www.candition.com
    ●Hiking Treks (my younger brother's website): hiking guides @ www.thetrekplanner.com
    "He who walks on the edge...will eventually fall."
    "There are two ways to die in the desert - dehydration and drowning." -overhearing a Park Ranger at Capitol Reef N.P.
    "...the first law of gear-dynamics: gear is like a gas - it will expand to fit the available space." -Wortman, Outside magazine.
    "SEND IT, BRO!!"

  16. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by jman View Post
    So those who reject the idea of the TSA or security handling...

    How would you like to see it changed or done?
    You are missing the point.... I don't want it changed or done.... I want it eliminated, I want my rights and freedom restored and I'll accept the risks.....

    If what is going on is not an illegal search of the innocent I don't know what is.... I want my government to protect my right to privacy is what I want...

    The new TSA measures recently enacted clearly violate the right of U.S. citizens, guaranteed by the Fourth Amendment, to protection from unreasonable searches. Mo McGowan, a former high-ranking TSA official recently admitted on Fox News that they do in fact violate Fourth Amendment rights. TSA then compounds the issue should you attempt to refuse both the scan and the pat-down, by preventing you from leaving the security area and arresting you if you continue to refuse. Their logic for this is that anyone who would refuse to be checked at the time it’s about to happen is automatically even more suspect.... yet another case where the government operates under the fallacy that privacy is only desired by those with something nefarious to hide.

    An example of how airport security should be handled is Israel, a country that has been dealing with terrorist threats on airplanes much longer than the U.S., and certainly is more likely to encounter one on any given day. Israel doesn’t use full-body scans or pat-downs, they evaluate the people, not the stuff people are carrying. They scan bags and use metal detectors, of course, but mostly they use "soft" techniques, and they are extremely effective and quick.

  17. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by jman View Post
    So those who reject the idea of the TSA or security handling...

    How would you like to see it changed or done?
    like the israeli's do it. profile.

    edit: damn, ice beat me to it.
    But if I agreed with you, we would both be wrong.

  18. #17

  19. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by denaliguide View Post
    like the israeli's do it. profile.

    edit: damn, ice beat me to it.
    Totally agreed. The post 9/11 security procedures are what I have always called "feel-good, do-nothing". I do not feel safer because some clown wearing a uniform and badge makes everyone take off their shoes, and pulls random people (usually some old lady with a walker) out for a closer shakedown. I don't feel safer because no one can bring even an UNOPENED BOTTLE OF WATER onto the plane. The measures are completely irrational, based not on fact or logic, but dreamed up by someone(s) who has a complete hard-on for power trips over others. I have never enjoyed flying, but now I detest it because of these lame-assed measures. I also wonder at what point every single passenger getting on an airplane is now viewed with suspicion as a possible terror suspect? WTF, man?

    The bottom line is that if some terrorist whackjob is bound and determined to die for their cause, nothing will stop them. They could shove a bunch of C4 up their ass, or swallow something, and take down a plane that way.

    I'm with Kevin, Ice, and you, Denali: let me get on the damn friggin' plane, just like I used to 10 years ago. I'll take my chances that the plane won't get blown up by someone. And by God, if by chance someone is on my plane and starts yelling "ALLAH AKBAR!", while brandishing some weapon or threat to take it down, I'll go down doing whatever I could to stop the SOB...along with the rest of the passengers, I'm sure.

    Life is not safe, and I don't appreciate people trying to sanitize it for me. I don't need or want "the government" trying to limit my freedoms under the guise of trying to "protect" me. Whether it's the NPS thinking of shutting down Angel's Landing because more than a few people have fallen to their deaths, or telling me I can't smoke pot [which I don't do anyway], it's intrusive and pointless.

    If I were flying on Nov 24, I'd definitely "opt out". TSA:
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  20. #19
    Moderator jman's Avatar
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    Btw Shane - not missing any point. Just theorizing.

    Thanks for sharing. I will add, that something worse than poor security - is a false sense of security.

    Israel doesn’t use full-body scans or pat-downs, they evaluate the people, not the stuff people are carrying.
    . So does this suggest, or imply that you condone profiling/labeling/prejudice/judging? Isn't that why Arizona's immigration law was so infuriating to so many people? Because, the darker-colored people couldn't walk down the street without being harassed by police officers thinking that they might be illegals?
    ●Canyoneering 'Canyon Conditions' @ www.candition.com
    ●Hiking Treks (my younger brother's website): hiking guides @ www.thetrekplanner.com
    "He who walks on the edge...will eventually fall."
    "There are two ways to die in the desert - dehydration and drowning." -overhearing a Park Ranger at Capitol Reef N.P.
    "...the first law of gear-dynamics: gear is like a gas - it will expand to fit the available space." -Wortman, Outside magazine.
    "SEND IT, BRO!!"

  21. #20
    Moderator jman's Avatar
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    TSA then compounds the issue should you attempt to refuse both the scan and the pat-down, by preventing you from leaving the security area and arresting you if you continue to refuse. Their logic for this is that anyone who would refuse to be checked at the time it’s about to happen is automatically even more suspect....
    To be corrected - the reason behind that is so "terrorists" can not test the security for weaknesses.
    ●Canyoneering 'Canyon Conditions' @ www.candition.com
    ●Hiking Treks (my younger brother's website): hiking guides @ www.thetrekplanner.com
    "He who walks on the edge...will eventually fall."
    "There are two ways to die in the desert - dehydration and drowning." -overhearing a Park Ranger at Capitol Reef N.P.
    "...the first law of gear-dynamics: gear is like a gas - it will expand to fit the available space." -Wortman, Outside magazine.
    "SEND IT, BRO!!"

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