NPS Morning Report 9/21/10 Subway no jumping

[trackrunner]

Bo would you say the number one reason you are called out is injuries from jumping?

http://www.nps.gov/applications/morningreport/

Zion National Park (UT)
Injured Hiker Short-Hauled Out Of Subway Route

On Saturday, September 19th, a 20-year-old hiker from Boise sustained an unstable ankle injury when she jumped eight to ten feet off an obstacle along the Subway Route. Ranger/medic Ray O

[DSTRBD]

I was in the Subway again last Sunday (the 12th) I assume the area the accident happened was at keyhole falls, it has filled in full of sand so the water is not even ankle deep under there. It does look pretty inviting as a short little jump onto sand. I could see how someone would have just assumed it safe to jump.

[jman]

or it is at the final rappel area... Instead of rappelling down, there are some spots where downclimbing could turn into a 6-8ft drop (heading towards the final area).

awwwww.........ankle injuries are horrible.

[trackrunner]

or it is at the final rappel area

not sure where. from the original description it could be one of three drops with a bolt(s): bowling ball alley, keyhole falls, final drop. If I recall the first drop is not bolted.

[John Peterson]

First drop in Subway has a pinch point w/ sling and rap ring for rappel, no bolts though. Bowling ball water is usually quite deep, that'd be bad luck to bottom out there. Could have been anywhere to include some of the random potholes though.

Reminds me of the group of 12 in Orderville last Saturday (9/11) - someone in the group asks someone else why they are all downclimbing while my group of 4 was setting a rope. One girl answers, and I shit you negative, "They aren't as skilled as we are so they have to rappel." It was the same group that did Birch on Friday (9/10). They seemed overall nice but I was embarrassed for her.

[trackrunner]

Bowling ball water is usually quite deep, that'd be bad luck to bottom out there.

yes, if I recall here use to be a big boulder at the base of that rappel, only a few feet below the water during dry periods. has it washed out now? It has been a while since I last did the subway

[Aethyrial]

On my first canyoneering trip, before even starting the approach, Mike (mmac) warned me about jumping. "If you twist your ankle, chances are good you are at least spending the night."

[deathtointernet]

I'm also going to have go with Keyhole Falls... with the recent rearrangement of the canyon (filling everything with sand), the bottom of Keyhole is flat and probably pretty tempting to jump. I was through there earlier this month, and the sand isn't entirely stable right now. Some of it is hard-packed and some it you can sink a good foot deep into. The bottom of the drop to the bowling ball corridor is shallow and used to have some obstacles underwater, but now seems to be quite flat, but I don't see it as likely because you still can't see what you're getting into, unlike Keyhole which looks oh-so-possible. But who knows. Right now you could break an ankle just walking the bottom of the canyon if you step into the hidden holes in the sand. I sure wouldn't want to tempt fate even further by jumping off something.

[Scott Card]

I pretty well have a no jump rule. End of story.

[trackrunner]

I pretty well have a no jump rule. End of story.

and a good rule to have

[flatiron]

Interesting. I saw a canyoneering show this spring in Boulder presented by Charley Oliver @ ACA, promoting new Ouray canyons and featuring others throughout west. Mostly Class C or some kind of water. The DVD show had numerous shots of people cannon balling into pools of water, very much highlighting and seemingly promoting it a one of the features of canyoneering. I really haven't done class c stuff, maybe that is the norm, but I was quite taken aback. For you guys who do or have done class c, is that part of the deal?? Maybe it is I guess, especially if a scout has checked out the pool, but still?? I told me girlfriend who is relatively new and cautious about canyoneering that we/I do not jump into pools or anything else. I had a friend break a foot in Pine Creek a few years ago, not from jumping but just a misstep, and we tried an ill fated self rescue b4 calling in the pros. Don't want to do that again. So no- jumping is not part of my resume or in any group I'm in.

Alan

[trackrunner]

The DVD show had numerous shots of people cannon balling into pools of water, very much highlighting and seemingly promoting it a one of the features of canyoneering. I really haven't done class c stuff, maybe that is the norm, but I was quite taken aback. For you guys who do or have done class c, is that part of the deal?? Maybe it is I guess, especially if a scout has checked out the pool, but still??

I've done a class C that normally has jumps and steep water slides. We still always sent a person down first on rappel to confirm the depth, make sure there were no obstacles, or to alert other members where hazards may be to avoid. This was a day after another group did the same canyon. We still did it because it was good practice and something could have changed.

The last rappel is less than 120 ft. next to a talus slope, obviously not a jump. After being the first one down I used hand signals to indicate off rope and then yelled above the sound of the water fall "DON'T JUMP" everyone laughed.

[FONT=Verdana]This summer I went to a swimming hole with a cliff jump, which I

[deathtointernet]

I pretty well have a no jump rule. End of story.

Agreed. That's why it can be hard to figure out where something like this went wrong... hard to get into the minds of someone who thinks jumping is a good idea. I suppose it could've happened in the bowling ball corridor if they thought the water was deep, because you can't see the bottom. Of course that doesn't mean it's deep, or shallow, it just means you can't see the bottom. It has that first drop and then the second into the corridor itself, and I could definitely see someone dropping down the first part and saying to themselves 'looks like a nice plunge!' It's about three/three-and-a-half feet deep right now. Problem with the Subway is that it's *so close* to being just a watery hike, and it's in all the hiking guidebooks, so you just don't know who will end up in there. Heck, the first time I ever did it I ran into a guy literally fleeing in terror right before dropping into the canyon. Probably the best decision of his life!

[ratagonia]

I asked at the desk where the accident occurred, and Brad sent me this email yesterday:

Hey Tom, I got a hold of a few of the rangers that went on the Left Fork SAR last week. They said that the person jumped at Keyhole falls and got injured there. She was short hauled out by helicopter from down canyon below the last rappel.

Bradley J. Cooke
Backcountry Division
Zion National Park
Springdale, UT 84767
435-772-0170

[DSTRBD]

I asked at the desk where the accident occurred, and Brad sent me this email yesterday:

Hey Tom, I got a hold of a few of the rangers that went on the Left Fork SAR last week. They said that the person jumped at Keyhole falls and got injured there. She was short hauled out by helicopter from down canyon below the last rappel.

Hmmm, just as I had suspected... It looks awful inviting to jump there right now.

How was Imlay Tom? Did the Colorado boys hold up well?

[ratagonia]

Hmmm, just as I had suspected... It looks awful inviting to jump there right now.

How was Imlay Tom? Did the Colorado boys hold up well?

A good time had by all. Imlay always delivers. T

[Ryebrye]

Bo would you say the number one reason you are called out is injuries from jumping?

http://www.nps.gov/applications/morningreport/

Zion National Park (UT)
Injured Hiker Short-Hauled Out Of Subway Route

On Saturday, September 19th, a 20-year-old hiker from Boise sustained an unstable ankle injury when she jumped eight to ten feet off an obstacle along the Subway Route. Ranger/medic Ray O’Neil and Dan Hovanec hiked in six miles, stabilized her injury, and spent the night with the injured hiker. Rangers Kelsey Taylor and Derrick Fassbender hiked in additional equipment and escorted the rest of the hiking group out in the dark that evening. On Sunday, Grand Canyon’s helicopter and flight crew short-hauled the woman out of the Subway Route to a waiting ambulance. In the area where the incident occurred, a bolted anchor is available to rappel or hand-line down. Despite discouraging the practice, jumping to negotiate obstacles continues to be a frequent cause of injury while canyoneering in Zion.

A wise man once taught me a key rule:

IF you are gonna be dumb, you've gotta be tough

If you jump down a drop and hurt your ankle (being dumb), you need to man up and somehow find a way to get out on your own power or with group assistance (be tough).

If you hurt your ankle and need a chopper to get out, you might want to reconsider your backcountry preparedness.

I was with a guy who had a very unlucky experience in the Subway when it was in high water - he went over one of the little water slide features and had his leg angled at just the right angle to catch a ledge or something under the water and ended up breaking his left leg. So arguably, what we did on the little water slides was dumb (as evidenced by his breaking his leg).

It made the hike out take a bit longer and he had a really hard time using the clutch on the drive home that night. We never even thought about calling for SAR. Had he not been able to walk on his own... we were prepared to assist him the whole way out and would have carried his ass out the entire exit.

[ratagonia]

A wise man once taught me a key rule:

IF you are gonna be dumb, you've gotta be tough

If you jump down a drop and hurt your ankle (being dumb), you need to man up and somehow find a way to get out on your own power or with group assistance (be tough).

If you hurt your ankle and need a chopper to get out, you might want to reconsider your backcountry preparedness.

I was with a guy who had a very unlucky experience in the Subway when it was in high water - he went over one of the little water slide features and had his leg angled at just the right angle to catch a ledge or something under the water and ended up breaking his left leg. So arguably, what we did on the little water slides was dumb (as evidenced by his breaking his leg).

It made the hike out take a bit longer and he had a really hard time using the clutch on the drive home that night. We never even thought about calling for SAR. Had he not been able to walk on his own... we were prepared to assist him the whole way out and would have carried his ass out the entire exit.

I think you will find, with some reflection, that not doing dumbass things in the first place is a better, long-term strategy.

T as

[stefan]

I think you will find, with some reflection, that not doing dumbass things in the first place is a better, long-term strategy.

T as

[oldno7]

I think you will find, with some reflection, that not doing dumbass things in the first place is a better, long-term strategy.

T as

hmmm...