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Thread: Zion Permits?

  1. #1

    Zion Permits?

    I think this has been discussed but I could not find it? I tried to go in on my express permit and get permits for Pine Creek-Keyhole and Spry and they are not listed? How is the park handling these with the road closure? Want to head down in a few weeks and trying to figure where we can go. Does anyone know what time can you pick up permits at Kolob?

    Thanks

    Mark

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  3. #2
    You can pick up a permit at Kolob whenever they are open. They don't have a dedicated backcountry desk like the main visitor center.

    Zion Canyon Visitor Center
    Open: Daily
    Closed: December 25
    Spring: 8:00 am to 5:00 pm.
    Summer: 8:00 am to 8:00 pm.
    Fall: 8:00 am to 6:00 pm.
    Winter: 8:00 am to 5:00 pm.

    2010 Backcountry Desk Hours
    (Located at the Zion Canyon Visitor Center)
    January 1-April 24: 8 am to 4:30 pm.
    April 25-May 27: 7 am to 6 pm.
    May 28-September 6: 7 am to 6 pm.
    September 7-October 24: 7 am to 6 pm.

    Kolob Canyon Visitor Center
    Open: Daily
    Closed: December 25
    Spring: 8:00 am to 5:00 pm.
    Summer: 8:00 am to 5:00 pm.
    Fall: 8:00 am to 4:30 pm.
    Winter: 8:00 am to 4:30 pm.

    For more information phone: (435) 772-3256

  4. #3
    Content Provider Emeritus ratagonia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by moab mark View Post
    I think this has been discussed but I could not find it? I tried to go in on my express permit and get permits for Pine Creek-Keyhole and Spry and they are not listed? How is the park handling these with the road closure? Want to head down in a few weeks and trying to figure where we can go. Does anyone know what time can you pick up permits at Kolob?

    Thanks

    Mark
    Yes, they have blocked reservations and therefore Express Permits because of the construction, for these canyons, due to uncertainty.

    Yes, SOMEONE knows the hours of the Kolob Canyons Visitor Center. Try this link: http://tinyurl.com/2unj8za

    Tom

  5. #4
    Content Provider Emeritus ratagonia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Iceaxe View Post
    You can pick up a permit at Kolob whenever they are open. They don't have a dedicated backcountry desk like the main visitor center.

    Zion Canyon Visitor Center
    Open: Daily
    Closed: December 25
    Spring: 8:00 am to 5:00 pm.
    Summer: 8:00 am to 8:00 pm.
    Fall: 8:00 am to 6:00 pm.
    Winter: 8:00 am to 5:00 pm.

    2010 Backcountry Desk Hours
    (Located at the Zion Canyon Visitor Center)
    January 1-April 24: 8 am to 4:30 pm.
    April 25-May 27: 7 am to 6 pm.
    May 28-September 6: 7 am to 6 pm.
    September 7-October 24: 7 am to 6 pm.

    Kolob Canyon Visitor Center
    Open: Daily
    Closed: December 25
    Spring: 8:00 am to 5:00 pm.
    Summer: 8:00 am to 5:00 pm.
    Fall: 8:00 am to 4:30 pm.
    Winter: 8:00 am to 4:30 pm.

    For more information phone: (435) 772-3256
    Shane - spoiling Tom's fun, AGAIN!!!

    T

  6. #5
    So for those canyons is it just day by day? I had heard you can do them on the weekends but not weekdays? I tried calling the backcountry desk but they are way to busy to answer their phone. Maybe we could get them some stimulus money?

  7. #6
    Backcountry desk just called me back. Pinecreek is closed until further notice. Keyhole and Spry are on walk in basis but open each day. She said that each canyon has 20 permits? Isn't that more then Spry usually allows?

    Mark

  8. #7
    Content Provider Emeritus ratagonia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by moab mark View Post
    Backcountry desk just called me back. Pinecreek is closed until further notice. Keyhole and Spry are on walk in basis but open each day. She said that each canyon has 20 permits? Isn't that more then Spry usually allows?

    Mark
    They upped the quota in a few canyons including Keyhole and Spry for this year. But they did not announce it.

    Pine Creek is closed because they are working on the Switchback where people usually come out. It is beyond the reach of the Backcountry Desk's imagination that canyoneers could hike all the way to Canyon Junction. It is, after all, SO FAAAAAAAR.

    Tom

  9. #8
    Content Provider Emeritus ratagonia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by moab mark View Post
    So for those canyons is it just day by day? I had heard you can do them on the weekends but not weekdays? I tried calling the backcountry desk but they are way to busy to answer their phone. Maybe we could get them some stimulus money?
    They only have one person on the desk during the day, and that person goes to lunch.

    Picture #3: http://www.canyoneeringusa.com/rave/1005lowf/index.htm

    Tom

  10. #9
    The nice backcountry employee said that Pinecreek was closed due to the work on the switchbacks and also the construction company is parking their equipment in the upper parking lot. I suggested maybe we could start farther upstream and maybe hike all the way out the bottom. She said that the pinecreek permit does not allow you to start farther upstream and you are suppose to come out on the switchbacks? Go figure.

    Tom in one of those pictures what has Jonathon got in his pack? Planning an overnighter?

    Mark

  11. #10
    Content Provider Emeritus ratagonia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by moab mark View Post
    The nice backcountry employee said that Pinecreek was closed due to the work on the switchbacks and also the construction company is parking their equipment in the upper parking lot. I suggested maybe we could start farther upstream and maybe hike all the way out the bottom. She said that the pinecreek permit does not allow you to start farther upstream and you are suppose to come out on the switchbacks? Go figure.

    Tom in one of those pictures what has Jonathon got in his pack? Planning an overnighter?

    Mark
    We brought dry suits with clothing and at that point he had a 300' rope in his pack, still. Plus, you know, all of MY gear, lunch and beers for post-rappel party. The cooler takes up a lot of space.

    Tom

  12. #11
    Basin Cruiser BasinCruiser's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by moab mark View Post
    The nice backcountry employee said that Pinecreek was closed due to the work on the switchbacks and also the construction company is parking their equipment in the upper parking lot. I suggested maybe we could start farther upstream and maybe hike all the way out the bottom. She said that the pinecreek permit does not allow you to start farther upstream and you are suppose to come out on the switchbacks? Go figure.

    Tom in one of those pictures what has Jonathon got in his pack? Planning an overnighter?

    Mark
    I was under the impression that construction would only be Mon. thru Thurs., and that these canyons would be open on the weekends (Fri-Sun). Is this information that they are giving different from that? Are they saying that Pinecreek is closed completely (no weekend access), or just Mon-Thurs.?

    I am planning a trip to Zion for Sept. 17-18 (hoping to do Pinecreek Fri. and Mystery Sat.). Will I likely not be able to do Pinecreek?

    I just called the backcountry desk, and left a message, requesting them to call me back concerning access to Pinecreek on the weekend.

  13. #12
    Zions the "s" is silent trackrunner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BasinCruiser View Post
    I was under the impression that construction would only be Mon. thru Thurs., and that these canyons would be open on the weekends (Fri-Sun). Is this information that they are giving different from that? Are they saying that Pinecreek is closed completely (no weekend access), or just Mon-Thurs.?

    I am planning a trip to Zion for Sept. 17-18 (hoping to do Pinecreek Fri. and Mystery Sat.). Will I likely not be able to do Pinecreek?

    I just called the backcountry desk, and left a message, requesting them to call me back concerning access to Pinecreek on the weekend.
    well kind of. it was announced early on that the canyons would be open as a walk in only if construction didn't conflict with access. construction is currently conflicting with Pine Creek. well debatable if you start higher and finish lower maybe not. Keyhole was closed earlier when construction conflicted with that canyon.

  14. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by BasinCruiser View Post
    Are they saying that Pinecreek is closed completely

    Correct, they are closed everyday until the paving company get past the switchback IE, moves their equipment with them.


    I am planning a trip to Zion for Sept. 17-18 (hoping to do Pinecreek Fri. and Mystery Sat.). Will I likely not be able to do Pinecreek?

    If I was a betting man, I would lay down good money that you will not be able to do pinecreek, Once they (paving company) gets past the switchback and moves their equipment THEN the masons need to come in and rebuild the wall they have torn up...I'm guessing it will be 6 weeks or more before anyone is going to do pinecreek
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  15. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by moab mark View Post
    The nice backcountry employee said that Pinecreek was closed due to the work on the switchbacks and also the construction company is parking their equipment in the upper parking lot. I suggested maybe we could start farther upstream and maybe hike all the way out the bottom. She said that the pinecreek permit does not allow you to start farther upstream and you are suppose to come out on the switchbacks? Go figure.

    Tom in one of those pictures what has Jonathon got in his pack? Planning an overnighter?

    Mark
    Backcountry desk workers actually use apache helicopters to exit Pine Creek - skipping the switchbacks altogether.


    Is there any technical terrain higher up Pine Creek which would warrant you needing a permit to hike there? Is it some kind of closed-off area? My understanding with backcountry permits are that you only need them in places that are technical. If there isn't any technical terrain above pine creek... you don't need a permit to be there... so who cares that the permit only gives you special permission to be in the section that needs special permission and doesn't offer any kind of redunant permission over areas that you don't already need permission to be in.

    Same goes with the exit. Lower pine creek (anything after you take your harnesses off) definitely doesn't require a permit at all - so walking down the length of the stream and avoiding the switchbacks should be no problem whatsoever. Who cares what the permit has printed on it saying where it thinks you should exit...

    Tell the ranger you will airdrop the permit via a precision-guided projectile and have the printed permit land exactly where a permit is required. You will start further up in an area that doesn't require a permit, and when you get to the region that does require a permit you will pick it up and carry it with you. Upon exiting the canyon after the last rappel, you will proceed to somehow dispose of the permit in a manner that leaves no trace and abides by all applicable park rules (I would recommend eating it) - and then you will proceed to walk out lower pine creek as a normal park visitor and no longer under the restrictions the backcountry ranger thinks the permit places you under - therefore allowing you to walk out farther down the stream.

    The BC desk worker's head might explode though. (These are the same people who will gladly take your $20 and give you a permit for Boundary or Fat Man's Misery canyon - even though no such permit is required.)
    -----
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