Flatwater canoe/kayak trips for March?

[Ravialdo]

Long-time lurker here.
My buddy and I are planning a trip in March or early April. Usually we backpack but the last big trip we took was last summer as a kayak camping trip to Isle Royale which was alot of fun (nice not to lug around in the kayak hatches, as opposed to our back).
Looking to do a similar trip in Utah this time. Have researched the Green river and its many facets, which seems like a frontrunner.

Questions I had:
1) any other desert FLATWATER trips you guys would recommend? I've seen people post about the Escalante; are there sections that are flatwater?
2) Time of year. I am really looking for early spring, as I haven't gone out on a trip in over a year, and am bouncing off the walls. We can camp easily in the cold and enjoy it; plus I hate crowds and mosquitoes. Is March or April a decent time (most of the TR's I've seen are mid summer or October)?
3) What about other non-classic trips that could be done without a guided by people with zero whitewater experience? Dirty Devil?

Info about us: Do a lot of backpacking and camping, and have been to Utah many times (CLNP is my favorite place). Canoe and sea-kayak experience but NO whitewater experience at all. Not interested in a Guided trip either. Will have roughly 1 week to do this (less actually considering flying in and out).

Any other 'outside the box' suggestions for desitinations? Both of us are in professions that require us to put in for vacation literally 6 months to 1 year ahead, so I've got only a couple weeks to 'reserve' time in Spring 2011.

Many thanks!

[Shan]

Hi Ravialdo! You might want to find this book to get flow recommendations and all the details about put ins and take outs. My library had it. It was sorted into beginner-intermediate which would mean easier flatwater trips.

River Runner's Guide to Utah and Adjacent Area (2002 revised and updated) by Gary C. Nichols.

The "Little Grand Canyon" of the San Rafael is Class I but flows have to be 150 cfs or else you're walking. We were gong to do this in June because supposedly with a high water year there will be 2 weeks where it's floatable. I watched it and I didn't see it go up enough.

The Escalante recommends at least 50 cfs to float. Here's a table of Mean Daily Flow from 1942-2009, and it doesn't look like too many day hit 50! So it'd have to be a really good flow year. But again, see what the book says.

http://nwis.waterdata.usgs.gov/ut/nw...selection_list

http://www.blm.gov/ut/st/en/fo/grand...r_running.html

The Green River you could float in Mar/Apr. Flows are similar to late summer early fall flows which would mean more sand bars to camp on. You could do the Labyrinth and Stillwater canyon sections. Stillwater goes through Canyonlands NP. The Stillwater part requires a permit. Or just do Stillwater and take more time to hike the canyons and explore the ruins.

http://waterdata.usgs.gov/nwis/dvsta...selection_list

The San Juan River in the southeastern corner is great I hear and on my list. I couldn't find recommend flows for flowing though.
http://www.blm.gov/ut/st/en/fo/monti...uan_river.html

My river friend raves about the Dirty Devil. The book will go into detail about it.

[Ravialdo]

Thanks! Much appreciated. Booked my vacation for the middle week of March 2011. Think we are going to do the Green River, although given possible put-in issues with the road to Mineral Bottom being washed out, may have to do Meander Canyon instead (due to time limitations. Wife at home with 3 kids, including a newborn, will only afford me 1 wk which will be less when figuring in travelling from Florida).

Of course, will keep an eye on things. If it looks good, may try San Juan or others, based on the run off. This is so far in advance, anything can happen. Winter isn't even here yet, so who knows what the snow pack will be.

[Bo_Beck]

Thanks! Much appreciated. Booked my vacation for the middle week of March 2011. Think we are going to do the Green River, although given possible put-in issues with the road to Mineral Bottom being washed out, may have to do Meander Canyon instead (due to time limitations. Wife at home with 3 kids, including a newborn, will only afford me 1 wk which will be less when figuring in travelling from Florida).

Of course, will keep an eye on things. If it looks good, may try San Juan or others, based on the run off. This is so far in advance, anything can happen. Winter isn't even here yet, so who knows what the snow pack will be.

We canoed the Green River from Ruby Ranch to Mineral Bottom last October. http://www.bogley.com/forum/showthre...-14-thru-10-18 What a GREAT Trip! I think if it's just the 2 of you you'd be able to push a bit harder and get in Ruby Ranch to Spanish Bottom in 6-7 days without problem? In just 13 days we launch in canoes from Potash to Spanish Bottom. Not too sure how the hiking will be from the river, but we'll take Monday thru. Friday to get from Moab to Spanish Bottom then another few days to Packraft Cataract to Hite. There is supposedly only rapid (class 1 or 2) near the confluence with the Green River? The canoes will be picked up on Jet Boats and we'll continue down the Colorado in Packrafts to Lake Powell (17 miles of pretty big rapids involved in this section). I'll be giving a trip report upon our return to home somewhere around the 20th or 21st of October.

PS: I did both the upper section and lower sections of the San Juan. It's been quite a few years since I rowed a baggage boat on the upper, but with Spring Runoff there are a few rapids, and unless you've got some whitewater experience in a canoe I would reccommend using Duckies i.e. IK's or rafts. I also did a trip on the lower this past May http://www.bogley.com/forum/showthre...38642-San-Juan in reasonably low flow conditions (put-in at Mexican Hat with ~ 2000+cfs and took out at Clay Hills at ~800cfs.). There were a couple rapids on this lower section as well and same goes about whitewater/canoe experience. Just a little food for thought. I did swim the first rapid after Mexican Hat put-in.

[stan.jarvis]

Given your 2nd week of March date, Green River down to the confluence is reasonable. You might hit a bit of ice along the shore in a few spots at worst, but the predictions are for a warmer than normal winter.

There are other flatwater stretches that are marginal at that time. The Green from Fontenelle to Flaming Gorge, the White from Rangely down to the Green and the Yampa below Craig are good flatwater runs, though in mid-March run-off hasn't started and you should face some strong headwinds as well as risk ice. Consider the Gunnison from around Delta to Grand Junction, maybe even continuing down the Colorado to Westwater. The Gunnison has good flows in March and the wind is to your back. None of these are red rock desert. The Dolores, Muddy and San Rafael are, but their paddling windows are narrow and difficult to predict 6 months in advance. If you'd like to try one of those, pick a later date the next year and be prepared with a plan B alternative.

[Ravialdo]

Ok, getting closer to my trip. Thanks to everyone for your advice and tips. One or two more questions.

I only have a very limited time. Given flying into SLC and driving to Moab, I've got March 6-9th as actual paddling days. Plan to get out of the river on the 9th because I've got to fly out of SLC on the 10th. Talked to some folks at Tex's and they've been helpful, as well as folks at Tag-along.

With the very limited time I've got, the suggestion by one of the outfitters was to just float down the Colorado and Meander canyon, because I won't have to worry about not making it to the take out, 'cause the jetboat is coming past us anyways. Someone else suggesting putting in at just below the town of Green river and floating to Spring Canyon takeout.

1) Which section is more 'scenic' and conducive to hiking side-trips? I know Green River is great, but what about the section ABOVE Spring Canyon, which is really the only section we'd be doing?

2) Anyone with experience at that time of year to give me input on how many rafters would be on the Colorado side? The chance of solitude on the Green vs. Colorado makes me want to pick the Green, but I've been told at that time of year, we'd have the Colorado to ourselves.

3) Realistic miles per day at that time of year? Heard that I might have some headwinds which might slow us down.

Thanks a bunch. This forum is a great resource.

[slickrocker]

I've canoed both of these trips a couple of times, though not in March, and they both have hikes and sites to see.
1) On the Green, I assume your put-in is Ruby Ranch, mile 97. In just a couple of miles you'll be entering the canyons, very scenic for the rest of the trip. You can hike Three Cyn, Hey Joe Cyn.(old uranium mine) and the Bowknot Saddle.
2) On the Colorado in early March, I doubt that you will see anybody else. That's pretty early for the commercial outfitters. You might possibly see a private raft or two, but I doubt it. It's going to be pretty cold then. There are several ruins to be seen along this stretch, on and off river, and hikes to do are at the Grotto, Lockhart Cyn, ruins/pictographs across from Lathrop Cyn., the Petrified Forest and ruins at Indian Creek, if you get that far. You can also hike the saddle at the Loop, 11 miles up from the confluence.
3) I'd figure on an avg. of 15 miles a day, maybe more. Spring winds could be a factor but you might be fine.There should be plenty of sand bars for camping but it really is going to be cold at night.
Of course, the Colorado trip requires a 20.00 permit from the NPS, but the jet boat ride back makes for a great end to the trip.

[Ravialdo]

I've canoed both of these trips a couple of times, though not in March, and they both have hikes and sites to see.
1) On the Green, I assume your put-in is Ruby Ranch, mile 97. In just a couple of miles you'll be entering the canyons, very scenic for the rest of the trip. You can hike Three Cyn, Hey Joe Cyn.(old uranium mine) and the Bowknot Saddle.
2) On the Colorado in early March, I doubt that you will see anybody else. That's pretty early for the commercial outfitters. You might possibly see a private raft or two, but I doubt it. It's going to be pretty cold then. There are several ruins to be seen along this stretch, on and off river, and hikes to do are at the Grotto, Lockhart Cyn, ruins/pictographs across from Lathrop Cyn., the Petrified Forest and ruins at Indian Creek, if you get that far. You can also hike the saddle at the Loop, 11 miles up from the confluence.
3) I'd figure on an avg. of 15 miles a day, maybe more. Spring winds could be a factor but you might be fine.There should be plenty of sand bars for camping but it really is going to be cold at night.

Thanks!
I figure it will be pretty damn cold at night, likely at or below freezing. I guess I need to pack my fleece bag liner. But, I can handle the cold if it means no bugs and no crowds.
I'm now leaning towards the the Colorado side just because I'd rather not cut it too close with the take-out.

Next step is the get that Kelsey Canyonlands Guide. Of course, it appears to be out of print. Can only find copies selling over the interwebz at over $100!!

[slickrocker]

Thanks!

Next step is the get that Kelsey Canyonlands Guide. Of course, it appears to be out of print. Can only find copies selling over the interwebz at over $100!!

Get the Belknaps 's "Canyonlands River Guide" for mile by mile info and if you get into Moab a day early go to the Moab Library, they've got the Kelsey river guide, and spend an hour or so making notes in the Belknap guide. Keep in mind the two guides have different concepts of river mileage.

[gnwatts]

We did Spring Canyon to the confluence last year, it was typically spectacular. We canoed it in 3 days (had to get back to work). I have done the Colorado from Potash to the confluence, in 5 days (much better) and found it more beautiful, with more hiking opportunities. As far as times, we have done over 30 miles in a day on the Colorado and Green and as little as 5, due to wind. You will be going backwards sometimes, best thing to do when that happens is to beach the boat and drink beer. Use Tex's (IMO), as we did not like Tagalong as much, and they were more expensive.

[Ravialdo]

We did Spring Canyon to the confluence last year, it was typically spectacular. We canoed it in 3 days (had to get back to work). I have done the Colorado from Potash to the confluence, in 5 days (much better) and found it more beautiful, with more hiking opportunities. As far as times, we have done over 30 miles in a day on the Colorado and Green and as little as 5, due to wind. You will be going backwards sometimes, best thing to do when that happens is to beach the boat and drink beer. Use Tex's (IMO), as we did not like Tagalong as much, and they were more expensive.

Did you mean that you found the Green river side better from a scenic and hiking standpoint or the Colorado? I wasn't sure which one you meant.

Its about 67 miles from Spring Canyon to the confluence. I have 4 days on the river (the put-in day, 2 full days, and the take-out day). All the outfitters say roughly 15 mile/day but that seems really low. I wouldn't mind the Colorado side; its just that I'm a wilderness snob, and the idea of sharing the river/campsites with a bunch of rafters blaring music and being generally obnoxious would ruin the experience for me. Although everyone says 1st week of March should still be quiet...

[gnwatts]

I am a snob, also. We have done Meander Canyon in late September and March, in 07 and 09. We had a great deal of solitude, most of the rafters had motors, as they wanted to hurry through to Cataract I guess, so no conflicts. Both times we nearly had the place to ourselves, we found no one camped on the way down. The occasional tex or tagalong jet boat, but they slow down and then they are gone. Maybe we were just lucky regarding crowds, I don't know. I think there are more opportunities for exploring on the Colorado, and I found there were many more beaches and white sand camping opportunities (vs the Green). Also you are on the river 3 or 4 hours faster on your first day at Potash (vs Spring Bottom).

[slickrocker]

Ravialdo, 15 miles a day really is about the avg. My wife and I did Meander Cyn. last Aug. after the Mineral closure and did about 8-10 miles a day for 6 days and never even reached the Confluence. We stopped everywhere that looked interesting and camped early while other canoe groups passed by looking envious and jealous.. It's considerably more relaxing and interesting than having to paddle your ass off to make the jetboat p/u, especially when you have limited time.
Keep in mind both of these rivers will be running really low and slow in March. Today the Green was at 2100cfs - you'll be walking your boats over sandbars a lot. The Colorado is at about 2700cfs, not much better. Neither will be changing much in the next few weeks.
You can maximize your time on the Colorado better than the Green, IMO. Unless you really need Tex's to shuttle you and your gear to the put-in, you can launch yoursef at Potash as early in the morning as you want or even the night before if you can. There's multiday parking there and you'll be coming right back there on the jetboat, just drive your car back to Tex's to get your gear.
If you're concerned about other boaters that might be competition for camping, call Tex's and Tag-a-long and ask how many other customers they'll be picking up on your return day and which river they'll be on.
Expect to see other people, these are really popular rivers. If you don't, consider yourself lucky.

[Shan]

It's March now! Where did you decide to go?

[Alex]

You could always float Ruby Horsetheif. That's a 3 day float, no permits required, easy access from the freeway and no crowds at this time of the year.

Colorado from Potash to Confluence is awesome just the same, but more expensive jet shuttle back up. Also, Mineral Bottom road is open for business now, so you could put in there and float to confluence.